Visualizing Revival and Mission in Gen Z

Jim Lovelady  0:00  

Welcome to Grace at the fray, a podcast that explores the many dimensions of God’s grace that we find at the frayed edges of life. Come explore how God’s grace works to renew your life and send you on mission in His Kingdom.

Jim Lovelady  0:22  

Hello beloved of God. Welcome to the final episode of season five of Grace at the Fray. This has been such a fun season. What was your favorite episode? Leave us a note in the comments below. I want to know because I want to share stories of God’s grace at the frayed edges of life that resonate with how God is working in your life. So let me know and leave a thumbs up and a rating and share this podcast with folks who are seeking to experience gospel transformation and they need help living it out. So now I think today’s episode is a great way to finish a season that’s been exploring how God’s grace has been moving in the world, especially with Gen Z. My guest today is evangelist Nick Hall. He runs a ministry called Pulse Evangelism. Pulse Evangelism is a millennial and Gen Z led ministry focused on spreading the gospel and making Jesus known to the next generation. His ministry operates through large scale, live events, digital outreach, prayer initiatives and training programs for young evangelists. They’ve shared the gospel with millions of people worldwide, and they’re seeing revival take place among Gen Z. So I was excited, really excited to get together with Nick and chat about his ministry, because I want you to hear his story about his call from God to be an evangelist and and hear stories of revival that he’s seeing among Gen Z as he travels around to show the good news of Jesus. His mission is to put Jesus at the pulse of a generation. I love his emphasis on prayer, unity and raising up young evangelists to boldly declare the reality of God’s victory in Christ and how God’s grace. Well, that’s actually how the world really works now, grace. Why? Well, because Jesus is alive. Revival is happening among Gen Z, and it reminds me of how a generation ago, my dear friend and Serge colleague, Laurel Kehl, was swept up in Gospel revival and the greatness of God. Where God called her into global missions and by the way, for a spectacular conversation about being single and experiencing intimate fellowship with God, check out season one, episode six, with Laurel. But Laurel has told me the story of how she was called to the mission field. She was at this historical event called Explo ’72 in Dallas, Texas, where the Reverend Billy Graham and a number of other ministers asked around 85,000 people in the Cotton Bowl. They said this, “who will go for us?” And she stood up, along with thousands of other young people answering the call with, “Here I am. Send me.” Billy was calling a generation to give their lives for the sake of the lost and Laurel was enraptured by the greatness and goodness of God’s love and grace for a broken world, and caught up in something bigger than herself and her life was never the same. So here’s my gospel revival dream: it’s Gen Z’s turn, and the world will never be the same.

Jim Lovelady  3:41  

Thanks for hanging out. I’ve been, you know, all the social media stuff out there, I’ve been just kind of spying on you for a while. It’s just exciting. It’s exciting to see. But, yeah, I’m just, I’m seeing what the Lord is doing in your life and in your ministry, and so I just want to hear you talk about it, especially, especially because you did a whole thing at my alma mater, the University of Oklahoma. Anybody who brings Jesus to the University of Oklahoma is a friend of mine. Hey, come on, man. So I want to hear you talk about how the Lord called you to be an evangelist. And I want to hear what that’s been like. I want to hear what your what your ministry, like your heart for Gen Z has looked like, and how that’s led you to share the gospel to them, like the calling to them. So the calling to be an evangelist, the specific calling to be an evangelist, to the younger generation, and some of the challenges for that, challenges for both how they are receptive to the faith, but also challenges for how they’re being called to to ministry, either, either like for our purposes, cross cultural ministry, but for just really anywhere the Lord’s calling them, what those challenges look like, and just where you’re seeing grace. I mean, the podcast is called Grace at the Fray, it’s all about, like, where we’re experiencing God’s grace at the frayed edges of our life. And so yeah, however you integrate that into your into talking about how the Lord is bringing grace and how you’re experiencing His grace. Yeah. I’d love to hear all those, those things. 

Nick Hall  5:19  

So come on, man. I love it. Dive in.

Jim Lovelady  5:22  

 Jump in. Yeah, yeah, yeah, cool. Who are you?

Nick Hall  5:24  

Yeah, man, Jim. Well, it’s just great to be together. I’m excited to be here and yeah, I mean, I’m just a guy. Live in Minnesota, born and raised in North Dakota, married, three kids. My wife and I are about to celebrate 18 years of marriage. My oldest is about to become a teenager, so we’re figuring that out. And like a lot of parents out there, living in the place of just chaos of youth sports and, you know, and so that’s like a lot of my life, and that’s like my personal life, and then my my work life, my career, my mission is, I really believe I’m on Earth to tell people about Jesus and so that that takes place at home, of how we raise our kids. It takes place in how I interact with people at coffee shops and restaurants. And it it takes place through the organization I lead. I got called into ministry when I was young, and I didn’t know what that meant, but I just kind of kept saying yes to things, yeah. And then I ended up writing a paper when I was a university student. That has become my job. So I wrote this paper when I was in college in a business program titled Pulse, and it’s now, you know, next fall, it’ll be 20 years since we incorporated, and that’s been my career is just trying to tell people about Jesus and trying to reach students and trying to be an evangelist.

Jim Lovelady  6:51  

 It’s pretty profound that 20 years ago, you kind of set down what you’re going to be about, like when you look back at that, how much of what you wrote do you look at and go, well, kind of but then not quite so much. Or maybe even the Lord gave more than I could ask or imagine about that. Like, after 20 years, how do you evaluate, how do you look at that, that document? 

Nick Hall  7:11  

Yeah, that’s a great, great question. So the the paper I wrote, it was a specific time and place focus, right? So I knew I was supposed to be an evangelist. I didn’t know what that meant. I had some role models, right? Leaders that I had had some proximity to, who were, you know, prominent or out there preachers traveling, putting on crusades, and so I’m learning from them, what does this look like? And the paper was really me saying, How do I apply what I’m seeing from others, and what does it look like in my backyard, right? So the paper was titled Pulse, and the paper was really a dream of reaching our campus, right? So it was, what would it look like if we saw God move at North Dakota State University? And, you know, at the time, it was like, man, I’m a junior. I have some influence, not as much as some, more than others. I love Jesus. I know I love Jesus, but man, it’s weird. It’s hard. I keep seeing Christians falling away from their faith, and I keep seeing Christians getting excited about all of these other things. Meanwhile, those that don’t know Jesus seems like they’re getting further away from faith. Seems like they’re often defining us as Christians in terms of negatives, like, you know, we’re political or we’re against these social issues. And so the paper was really like, what would it look like if we united all these people who love the Lord? What would it look like if we prayed? And what would it look like if we came back to our first love? And what would it look like if we caught this heart of God for our campus, and then we tried to be as loud as possible with the good news, right? And so that was kind of the baseline of it like, and broke it down into kind of, here’s what could happen before, during and after, and then it was just madness, right? So students seeing something happen, and then back then, we were like, man, we could do this for our jobs. Like, what if this was our life? But at the time, you know, you’re sleeping on sofas, you’re eating tons of ramen noodles and Easy Mac, and you’re not really thinking about a lot. You’re just like, I just know I want to have a purpose. I think I had some vision of like an organization, possibly, but I would say, man, what I’m doing now is in some ways, very similar to what I would have aspired to. And in some ways I never would have wanted this in a million years. And in some ways it’s way better, you know. And so it’s like all of the above is true, but I think, like, 20 years in, I would just say I have learned more through the pain and brokenness. You know, when you talk about grace at the edges of life like it’s it’s been the hard moments that have been the reason I still have. Have a love for God. I still have a love for Jesus. I I want to love him more this year than I did last year, and I hope I love him more and deeper than I did 20 years ago, right? I think, I think so many of us, and so many people in the church look back and say, I remember back when I was on fire like that, and I just see that as such, like a tragedy statement that that we look back at past seasons as if that was when it was really good. And I think with God, I mean, it’s going to be different. But if you add more of God, shouldn’t it be better, right? You know? And so, like I I’m more aware of my brokenness now than I ever have been. And yet, I’m just so thankful for the grace of God that saved me and redeemed me. And I would say my focus now has kind of changed, right? Like back 20 years ago, I was like, what are the 10 things I need to do to be a big deal, you know? And now I’m kind of like looking at all of these 20 year olds and saying, Hey, I know that you want the 10 things to be a big deal, but there’s 10 things that we need to talk about that if those aren’t in place, like nothing is going to happen.  You know, like the outward fruit is going to follow if you have a foundation, but if you don’t have a foundation like this, outward fruit is going to crush you, you know, and you’re going to become a casualty of your success. 

Jim Lovelady  9:23  

Yeah, yeah. And if you do what you want right now, you’re going to be miserable. 

Nick Hall  10:52  

Yes, and so, I think. And this is why, you know, I didn’t understand this then. But like, you know, when I’m 18, 19, 20, I’m like, coming to leaders, like, man, I’m here to reach the campus, and I’m ready to speak at your group, you know. And I’m thinking, like, if I’m them, I’m excited, like, look at this young, passionate guy. But what I didn’t understand is, all they’re seeing is, like, danger, danger, danger, you know, pride. Is there any character, or is anybody speaking into this young man’s life, or what’s happening behind the scenes? You know, just because you’re good on stage means nothing. You know about who you actually are, and so, yeah. I mean, I think it’s just been this journey for me. Of like, when I have made it about trying to do the big things, I’ve been pretty empty, and I think as I’ve seen God change me from the inside out, I found actual fulfillment, regardless of success or not. But I think the bigger picture is like, man, the joy it is to actually multiply and to try to see, like, Hey, man, I wish somebody would have told me this. I wish somebody would have made time for me to have these kind of conversations. And that’s what I want to give myself to is like, Hey, if you’re hungry and you’re willing, like, there’s a seat for you here. We want to help you become everything that God wants you to be, as an evangelist, like, I want to believe in you, champion you. I want to, I want to be a lead blocker for you. But then it’s raising up these men and women that I believe are the solution. And you know, because I think them being who God made them to be, like. Hey, you burn in this direction, your passion this direction. Like, because there’s nothing more contagious than just people who are excited, right? It’s like, I just I man, I love your passion, and it makes me more excited, you know? And so that’s what we’re finding, is these men and women that are burning, they’re passionate, they’re called, some of them are going to go launch their own thing. A lot of them are going to go work at nonprofits or churches, and a lot of them are going to go into the marketplace, but these are evangelists. Like, they’re going to change Target, and they’re going to change Wall Street, and they’re going to change whatever, but it’s going to make a difference, because they’re going to go into it say, Man, I know who I am. Like, I know that God has made me this way. And yes, it’s weird. Like, this is weird, but it’s okay, because I just would say that, like, people talk about things they love, that’s normal, right? If your neighbor’s kid is killing it at youth sports, everybody in the neighborhood knows. They just do, the signs in the yard. Pictures are on Facebook and and they’re all over the place about it, right? If, if you love coffee, if you love bourbon, if you love whatever, like, it’s just people are evangelists for the things that they love. For whatever reason, we have treated faith as like, oh, faith is this thing that we kind of got to, like, duffle away, and we’re not really sure, I don’t really want to offend anybody, and it’s like, I don’t know where we got that from, but we didn’t get it from the Bible, right, and we didn’t get it from Jesus, right? And so it’s like, so I think it’s kind of coming back and saying, Okay, well, no, like, this is kind of the best thing ever, like, this is good news. This can actually change your life, unlike the 50 targeted social media ads, you know, that are always selling me crap, but I’m not mad at them. I’m buying half of it. 

Jim Lovelady  15:06  

That’s right, it’s working.

Nick Hall  15:07  

Yes, but it’s just like, I but, I mean, I’m just saying, so are we, do we believe? And are we willing to get the product out there and and say, man, this isn’t something like to fix you. This is the thing that changes everything. And, you know, and I’m not sharing this because I have it together. I’m sharing this because I know I don’t. I’m sharing this because this is the only thing that works. And so if you need help, like I need help. He’s the answer. 

Jim Lovelady  15:07  

Right. Talk to me about how you’re seeing revival among young people right now. 

Nick Hall  15:41  

Yeah, well, man, it’s, uh, it’s a crazy time, you know? It’s funny, because you talk to different people and I was just with a guy a couple days ago, and he’s like, I keep hearing these stories, but I don’t believe it, you know? And I was just like, I mean, I appreciate that. I understand that one of the mentors I had back when he said he felt like we were in a famine of faith in the church, right? That that those that have been believers a long time, the biggest obstacle is we just don’t believe anymore, you know, so, so when we hear a testimony, our first instinct is skepticism, right? Our first instinct is, it’s probably not real. Hey, there’s miracles over here. Yeah, right. You know, thousands are saved, uh huh, you know. And so it’s like, our first instinct isn’t, like, that could be God or praise God. Our first instinct is, eh… I don’t think so, right? But I think, like, young people, they’re at the other side of the spectrum, right? They’re like, God’s moving. I’m going to go. Where’s it happening? Let’s pack the bags, right? So what you’re seeing is young men and women that are literally sharing Jesus everywhere, and people are coming to Christ, like, like, in crazy numbers. It’s happening across Europe. It’s happening on college campuses. It’s happening on airplanes. One of our young evangelists, like, couple weeks ago, like, stood up on the plane and just started preaching the gospel. Wow, in the airplane, you know, and I get the video, and I’m like, Oh man, like, all I can think is, like, we’re going to end up on a TSA watch list of like, you know, hey, look out for anybody associated with. But you know, like, this video is crazy, because, like, in the video, people are clearly being moved in both directions. Some are really being impacted positively. Some are really being impacted negatively. This video has now been seen by like 10 million people. Wow, and it’s inspiring boldness of these young men and women who are just like, man, you know what? Like, I want something that is significant enough, you know. And interestingly enough, you know, this is why terrorist groups have grown, right? And as odd as that is to say that it’s like tons of young men and women from America have gone and joined these horrible causes because they’re looking for something that is worthy of living for and worthy of your life. And so it’s like, I don’t think people are interested in the Christianity that’s safe. They’re looking for a Jesus that can change everything 

Jim Lovelady  18:15  

I love, that you say that. 

Nick Hall  18:16  

You know. And so I just think it’s like, I’m not looking for like, Hey, make my life better. Nah, like, the world has plenty of solutions for that, you know?

Jim Lovelady  18:25  

Yeah. We’re getting bored of that. 

Nick Hall  18:28  

And we are, we’re numb, we’re bored and, and I think there’s a generation today that’s like, man, I’ve seen families don’t work. I’ve seen the money didn’t work. I’ve seen the education didn’t work. I’ve seen the health care didn’t work, right? Like we are living in a fully exposed bankruptcy of everything that the world says will satisfy. And so I think now you see this, like flip side of all of these, from the biggest of celebrities to the lowest of the low that are just saying, man, there’s got to be more, right? And so I do think there’s a genuine revival which happens in the people of God, which leads to awakening, which is where the general public is like their eyes are being opened to say, wait a second. Like so now you have Joe Rogan asking questions, and major comedians, major actors, major celebrities, major athletes, right? And just students all over saying, man, God, if You’re real, show me, would you move? And then you’re matching out these kids that are like, okay, let’s pray for you right now. You know, I’m going to preach this message right now. Like, because I just read this in the Bible, and this is what they did. So let’s do it, you know. And they’re, they’re not in the confines of, wait a second, like, you know? No, you need to, like, go to a class and then, and then you need, like, have you gotten approval? And, hey, what, you know, what’s the…you know, they’re like, no, no, I have Jesus. I’m understanding the Holy Spirit’s power, and I’m pretty sure the gospel is supposed to be shared. Let’s go. 

Jim Lovelady  20:00  

It’s the woman at the well, come and see the man who told me everything about me. It’s the blind man who said, I don’t know, I don’t know who healed me, but all I know is that, or the he was the cripple. I don’t know. Yes, he just told me to pick up my mat and walk. 

Nick Hall  20:14  

Yes, and yes, you tell me he’s bad. All I know is, I couldn’t do it. Now I can. You explain that for me, you know, it’s just like, yeah, it is. It’s the power of a testimony, right? It’s the power of a changed life. It’s the power of, you know, and again, that’s right, coming back to this concept of grace. It’s like, I never graduate from my need for grace. I never graduate from the wonder of amazing grace. In fact, every step I take away from it, I have made my faith and my life something else. And it’s like, that’s where Jesus, like “Let the children come to me.” And that’s where so many invitations are “return unto me the joy of my salvation'” right? And it’s just like, man, I’ve forsaken my first love, you know, and how quickly we move from being the prodigal son, where it’s like, man, thank you Dad for letting me come back home to becoming the older brother, saying you’re letting who in? I can’t believe you would let them in. He didn’t dress the right part. He didn’t work hard enough, he didn’t pray that. He didn’t even go through confirmation class. You know? And it’s like, no, like, this is all grace, right? And it’s like, that’s the the magic of it. Is this just God is just, He is gracious. He’s loving, He’s kind. And then the more I encounter it and the more I let it change me, you know, from all of the because I was going to say for me, man, I grew up in a church world where it was, you know, it’s good news, but man, it was definitely like, prove it, you know, like, put put points on the board. 

Jim Lovelady  21:48  

Now that you’re in, you better get to work. 

Nick Hall  21:50  

Yeah, it’s just, you know, performance christianity and so the amount of my, uh, adult life that has been spent sad, feeling like I don’t measure up, or feeling like I’m a disappointment, or measuring my self esteem based off of, do they like me or not? Are they giving or not? The number of times I’ve shared about the love of God and how it’s free while I’ve tried to earn it, you know. And it’s like, so it’s so it is just this, like this, this invitation from start to finish is like, man, do I know that I’m His, you know? And do I know that he loves me? And am I? Am I working from that place, as opposed to working from the place of I’m not enough. I need to fill this void somehow. You know, and I just think the number of us that do that and get caught in that, in the name of good things or in the name of bad things, but ultimately, it’s like to our own detriment right? But it is just this, this revival, and that’s where I say, like, it’s the kindness. So when Asbury broke out, our team was there. Asbury was this revival in Kentucky that a lot, a lot of people would say has kind of started this moment. And I would say it was that it was the visible, the first visible thing that they had seen. But you mentioned Oklahoma University, we were doing a big event at OU during the same time, and revival had broken out of OU. It just wasn’t looking the same way. But at Asbury, there was this chapel that was just full, and students are coming and students are coming and students are coming and and people say, Well, what was happening? And what was it like? And was there big this or big that it’s like? No, there’s nothing big at all, and there’s nothing wrong with the big. But this was just what this was, was repentance.

Jim Lovelady  23:41  

 Yup, people confessing their sins and repenting and being restored to the joy of their salvation. It’s that simple.

Nick Hall  23:48  

It was, repentance was normal. 

Jim Lovelady  23:50  

Yeah, amen. 

Nick Hall  23:52  

And people were just coming clean, and people are standing up, and I’m struggling with porn, and I’m addicted to marijuana, and I hate myself, and my marriage is falling apart. And it was tears, and it was healing, and it was again, it was just for me, it was like, it’s like these things, you know, your whole life, but man, it’s like, it’s the kindness of God, like it’s his kindness that leads us to repentance, right? And I kind of, I heard this, like word during this season that I kind of just kind of been, like, sung over my life, and I’ve just been trying to live into it, of like, this is invitation, not more condemnation. And I just think so many things in the Christian faith, for whatever reason, it’s like, I hear, read your Bible. Hey, you should read your Bible. Here’s 10 reasons to read the Bible. And like, I sit there and I’m like, you suck. 

Jim Lovelady  24:48  

That’s right. That’s what your heart does. 

Nick Hall  24:50  

You’re lazy, you know. See, this is your problem, you know. You just never read the Bible, you big phony, you know. And so it’s like this thing from God is beautiful, like God is inviting me to hear His voice. I’m hearing all the negatives, right? Or evangelism. Hey, share your faith. See, that’s your problem. You’re embarrassed of me. You know, are quiet, you know. So this, these, these gifts from God become like a a weapon of the enemy, that like we’re the punching bag, and He’s just taking blows at us, but, but with God, it’s like, no, no. This is, this is His kindness that’s inviting us, yeah? Just like Nick, Nick, Jim man, I have more for you, and if you want it, I have more for you, and the way you’re living isn’t working, and it’s my kindness that’s going to show you that so that you can say, man, you’re right. God, like, this sucks. I’m not happy. And that’s not God being mad, that’s God being kind, right? That is His grace, right? And again, you come back to the song, Amazing Grace. Like, it’s His grace that brought me safe thus far, and grace will lead me home, right? And I just think that’s the heart, that’s the desire, that’s the drive.

Jim Lovelady  26:11  

I want to pause this conversation and invite you to join us in prayer for the Serge field workers that we at the headquarters here in Philadelphia are praying for each week. We meet on Tuesday and Friday mornings to pray, and this week, we’re praying for all of our summer interns as they minister with our teams in locations all over the world for the next two months. Would you pray with me? Lord, we pray that You would bless these folks. Give them joy in their work, in your Kingdom, and the pleasure of your joy as they follow you. Give them wisdom and let your grace abound in their relationships with one another, with family members and children and with the people that they serve, heal all sicknesses, liberate the enslaved, protect them from the powers and principalities of darkness, restore to them the joy of your salvation, and let your Kingdom come and your will be done in these places, just as it is in heaven. We pray in Your name. Amen. Now back to the conversation. 

Nick Hall  27:03  

And again, that’s where, for me, with these young people, it’s like, hey, we’re going to do some awesome stuff. Let’s do it. Let’s go for it. But man, I really care about who you are and I really care about like, why are you doing what you do? And I really care about like, your mental health. I really care about like, the things you’re telling yourself, or because the bigger this gets, the bigger the target becomes. And so it’s like, is, is the inner life matching the public life, right? And I think, I think, again, as christians, we’ve gotten really good at our Sunday best christianity, right? We know how to put on the right outfit. We know how to put on the good service. We know how to give the right talk, but, man, it’s like, who we are to God matters way more. 

Jim Lovelady  28:10  

Yeah, it’s interesting that you have this thing that’s happening with with people where they’re like, alright, I gotta do my best performance, but then they can’t get away. They cannot get away from the voice of accusation and condemnation. I mean, like the word Satan means accuser, you know, and so, so these voices you just, you listed off a litany of accusations that were that are things that just float around in our head, and we entertain those things, and we generate them like we participate with them, and we agree with those accusations. And basically what we’re doing is we’re we’re being we’re being Satan, we’re being an accuser. We’re letting, we’re letting the accuser accuse us. And so we have to, in those moments, we even have to double down again on repentance and repent of how we’ve been listening to those false voices. Instead, repentance is “Jesus, what do you say?” And Jesus says, “I love you. I’ve always loved you. It’s my kindness that leads you to repentance,” You know. And so, forgive me for forgive me for being my own accuser. Forgive me for thinking that I’m a judge. Forgive me for thinking that I have a say in this. You tell me, you were the judge. You tell me, and his judgment is love, His judgment is forgiveness. His judgment is kindness, you know, so just when in doubt, repent.

Nick Hall  29:30  

Absolutely well, and I, one of the things that we’ll talk about a lot, and that I am always working on, is just saying, like, am I tuning my mind and my heart to hear His voice, and can I tell the difference between His voice and the other voices? Right, Jesus says, like my sheep hear my voice and my sheep know, know my voice. But I think the number of times that I’m hearing something, I’m entertaining something, I’m agreeing with something that isn’t God’s voice, right? And it’s like, I can hear like, what does God sound like? What does Jesus sound like, versus, what does my flesh sound like, right? And what does the world sound like, right? And it’s always like, the world is always try harder, prove it you’re not enough, like you’re a phony. It’s all these like, accusations or performance, right? With God, it’s always inviting me, right? Like, I’m yours, you’re mine. I love you. I’m for you. I’ll never leave you. I’ll never forsake you, right? Like, hey, that thing isn’t what’s best for you. You know, it’s always this tone, right? But it’s like, again, like, am I? And this is why scripture matters. This is why being in community matters, because these things help us discern the voice of God, right? And it’s like, I how do I hear and know, as opposed to like, for me, I can frequently hear like, Hey, Nick, you’re not okay, or you’re just something negative, like, hey, they don’t like you. You know, and it’s like, am I entertaining that? And it’s easy, it’s easy to just let that be and accept that. That becomes a narrative that’s been in my life for a long time, right? As opposed to saying, You know what, God, that’s not from you, right? Like I am, I am approved because I’m a son of God. Like, how great is the love the Father has lavished on me that I should be called a child of God? That is who I am. 

Jim Lovelady  31:31  

Yeah, that is what we are. 

Nick Hall  31:32  

Right. That’s what we are, right? And it’s just like, man, I’m, I’m, you know what? I am therefore now I’m more than a conqueror through Christ Jesus, like I am His ambassador, as though He were making His appeal, right? It’s just like your identity shifts depending on the voice you’re listening to, and like how you’re giving it authority. And I think that’s why… 

Jim Lovelady  31:55  

Yeah, the promises of God. 

Nick Hall  31:56  

Absolutely, absolutely.

Jim Lovelady  31:58  

Yeah. All right, so one more question. Talk to me about some of the biggest challenges. What are some of the biggest challenges that you’re seeing that need the biggest, boldest prayer as you move forward, both in you individually, but your ministry, and then as you’re looking out, surveying the landscape of Gen Z, young people, even Gen Alpha, what are some of the biggest things that you that you go, Oh Jesus, we desperately need you here where whatever big, bold prayers look like.

Nick Hall  32:28  

Yeah, I think there’s a real void and need and hunger for safe places for and I would say this is for me, this is for this generation of like are there going to be safe places with older leaders who are willing to sit in the tension with a young generation, right? And it’s like willing to hold their pain, willing to listen to their story, willing to come alongside them, and willing to show them another way, right? Because I just think these aren’t quick fix problems, right? This isn’t like, Hey, here’s the 10 steps, you know, hey, I’m really struggling, man, great, buy my book. Like, that’s not, oh, that’s not really what you know that’s not, that’s not going to do it, right? So it’s like we need a generation of disciplers who may have not been discipled, but, I mean, we need a generation of those that are going to stand in the gap for these young men and women, because I would just say they’re only going to be as healthy as the people that are pouring into them and the places that they’re they’re being formed and molded. I think one of the problems we have to recognize is it’s like we keep seeing these scandals or things that are happening, but all of these leaders are just doing what they were taught, like, it’s just, it’s just now being exposed, but like leaders being kind of charismatic/manipulative/whatever, like, this has been happening forever, right? And it’s just like, we’ve elevated these models of success for so long. And I would say these leaders didn’t have a healthy system around them.

Jim Lovelady  34:14  

Yeah, we built this, yeah. 

Nick Hall  34:15  

Yes. And we celebrated it, yeah, like, we built it, we bought into it, we funded it, and now we’re attacking it, you know? And it’s like, no, we’re a part of the problem. Like, so it’s like, if we want to see healthy leaders like, we have to be willing to invest in their health. And so I think for me, that’s where it’s like, are we willing, as the church, to really get behind men and women in their formative seasons to care about who they are more than what they do. Because I’ll just tell you what happens so quickly is you see a young man and woman gifted. And I’ll say this, this is my story, like there was 100 people reaching out to me with things that they wanted me to do: speak at my event, help, come be my youth pastor. It was all transactional, right? And it was 100 and it’s probably 1000 actually, it was probably 1000 people wanting me to do something that could use my gift to every 1 person that cared about who I was and actually wanted to ask me questions, like to care about me, right? And so what happens is, you train leaders from start to just believe that it’s all transaction. And to believe and to believe that that nobody actually cares, nobody actually has time for you, and you have to hide it and figure it out on your own, you know. And just figure it out. Fix it. Fix it, hide it, fix it. God’s still using you. He’s still using you. Just let it go. He’s still using you. Just don’t tell anybody. And so it’s like, I think this is a real prayer thing, of like, God, can we build safe places, right? Can we build and so for us. We call this like we’re trying to build a home for the evangelist

Jim Lovelady  36:04  

That’s right. We’ve been building spiritual orphans. You want to build a home. 

Nick Hall  36:10  

Yes. And it’s like, and the home the way that God you want. It’s like, this is a safe place to struggle. It’s a safe place to mess up. It’s a safe place to say the wrong thing. It’s a safe place, like, hey, when you go off and do something stupid, the home is still there, right? It’s like, no, this is, this is a place where you’re celebrated, this is a place where you’re championed, this is a place where you’re believed, and this is a place where your dreams aren’t nuts, right? Because, I mean, so many people who are dreamers, they’re used to people looking at them like they’re an idiot, right? Because it’s like, you keep sharing your dream to people who aren’t dreamers, and they just keep belittling you, right? But there’s something different when you get around people like, man, come on, let’s go. Like, why not? You know, let’s, why could I think you should dream bigger, you know? And I just think it’s like, so for me, the prayer is like, just these, the this healthy atmosphere, this, like spiritual greenhouse, and I would say in my own life, this is my prayer of like, God, am I investing in and caring for the part of Nick that makes sure that I’m loving you and maintaining that first love? And are there healthy influences, their older brothers and sisters who can speak into my life? Are there systems in place of education or counselors or therapists? Am I submitted under my local church? Like there is a framework that I believe God gives us, but it’s like the problem, and the easy thing that happens is my time and energy and leaders time and energy gets focused on everything else, right? It gets focused on how to make it bigger. It gets focused on how to scale it. It gets focused on the big vision. And those things happen at the expense of who these men and women are, right? And we all freak when the leader falls. 

Jim Lovelady  38:05  

That’s right, that’s right. 

Nick Hall  38:07  

But nobody cares about the leader, like, until they perform, nobody cares. And so it’s just the question of like, we have to be willing to do it different if we want different results. And I do believe, like we can see incredible things, we can see incredible movements, we can see incredible growth, but it doesn’t have to be at the expense of families and men and women and individuals and, you know, social feeds of church hurt and right. It just doesn’t have to be that way, right? And so I think if we’re going to do it different. We have to be willing to say, God, would you slow us down in order to go deep so that we can go far and go high, like I said a couple weeks ago to our young men and women, I said, this skyrise that is going up near our office. And I said, you know that building? And you see that building? Everybody sees that building. I said, You know what happened? Long before that building was there, they had to demo and they dug deep. Said it was months. It was months of effort, digging out crap. It was months. And then, you know, what they did? They drove pylons in deep into the ground, far beneath the surface. The higher the building was going to go, the deeper they had to go, because they knew we can’t just shoot the building up if we don’t go down. Right? And I think in our leadership development, in our ideas, in our own lives, the same man, we all want to go big, but we don’t want to go deep, right? I got like, God, I want the big without the deep. It’s like this. It’s just, all you’re doing is you’re just creating a, this is a horrible situation waiting to happen. You are a shooting star that is about to phase out and crash and there’s going to be mass casualties. And nobody wants that. You know. And I just think it’s like, man, there’s a there’s a different way. Um, and that’s what I’m praying for in my own life. And I’ll just say, man, it’s the grace of God. I had my birthday last year, and it’s really interesting, is the first birthday I’ve had – I turned 42, and and the thing I was so thankful for was all of the prayers that God didn’t answer. And, and it was like the revelation of the grace of God for me was that He didn’t give me what I wanted. You know, and it’s just like, this kind of this reality that, like, God knows what He’s doing, and He’s more committed to who we are than He is to the things we need to do. But it is just this, like again, constantly coming back to this. God, just make it real. Bring me back again. Forgive me, God for making it about something else. Bring me back to that wonder. 

Jim Lovelady  40:55  

Yeah, and suddenly, Amazing Grace starts to play in the back of your head.

Nick Hall  41:00  

Absolutely. 

Jim Lovelady  41:01  

You find and grace will lead me home.  I love it. 

Nick Hall  41:06  

I love it. We’re working on a it’s like, totally just an idea, but we call it anthem and and the idea is, it’s anthem of grace is what it’s short for, and it’s tied to two things. It’s tied to the song Amazing Grace, and then, and then it’s tied to a person’s testimony and and so the idea is asking people this question of, what is the anthem of your life? And and what we’re trying to do, my goal would be to build out a tool that actually would give people the chance to take an anthem challenge, where they could kind of say, kind of, here’s the here’s the list of priorities in my life, right? Like, and then the tool would actually measure the things you’re loud about, right? So what it would be like if you – so if you punched in your Instagram handle, or your Facebook, or your Tiktok, or whatever, it would then populate back. You said these are the priorities, but based on what you’re loud about, these are, this is your list in order of what you’re currently loud about. 

Jim Lovelady  41:06  

Oh, I love that. 

Nick Hall  41:06  

Right? And then the and it would be this kind of goal would be, then to help people move grace and their testimony and Jesus, you know, higher into the equation. Because I think it’s, it’s addressing the problem of just saying I believe Christians are loud about everything but Jesus, right? And so I think there’s and I don’t think they I don’t think it’s intentional. I think it’s just this time we’re living in of, like, toxic, whatever, and, and so it’s just like, how do we turn the volume down elsewhere to turn the volume up where it matters? And, yeah, just helping the global church get loud about this thing, because it’s like, and sharing your story is, it is the power of God. You know it is like, I mean in Revelation says we’re going to overcome the blood of the lamb and the word of their testimony. And it’s like, it’s the story of God changing lives that is a magnet to those that don’t know him yet. You know. And it’s like, and every person’s story is a miracle, right? But it’s like, Oh no, I don’t have a cool story. It’s like, No, man, your story is pretty amazing, especially to those that that know you. You know, but it is just like helping people. Anyway. So anything involving the word grace, I’m just like, I’ve just become convinced, man, it’s like the.. yeah, I just think either, either I’m living in it and I’m living close to it and I’m feeling it, or I’ve drifted. 

Jim Lovelady  41:49  

So I I use the analogy of the world plays soccer grace. God plays a different game. God. God plays Quidditch. Grace is a whole other playing field. We’re used to playing like on the ground with a certain set of rules that we go, Okay, I’m going to figure out the rules so that when I walk into a room, I’ll know where I stand. Am I the most popular person in the am I the most beautiful person? Am I the most wealthiest person? Where do I stand in this room? How? How do I? How am I compared to everybody else? Am I as righteous like, and it’s all like self generated righteousness, right? My self generated righteousness is how wealthy I am and how beautiful I am and how successful, whatever. You know, but that’s, that’s soccer that’s playing the the rules of that’s playing the game of the world. Jesus is like, Hey, we’re going to play a different game, where, where you are going to be soaring on heights that don’t make sense. It doesn’t feel natural. It’s going to feel, you know, mixing metaphors. It’s going to feel like a language that you don’t know. You’re going to be clumsy at it. But here’s the bottom line, it’s okay. The most glorious five words for me. We were talking about the prodigal sons earlier. Here’s the gospel in five words. “Everything I have is yours.” He says it, the father says it to the  older brother. Like, man, everything I have is yours. Like, that’s the end of the game of grace is everything I have is yours. When the game is over, everything I have is yours. How did it go? Jesus, everything I have is yours. I feel like I messed up. Jesus. Everything I have is yours. I feel like I’m addicted. Everything I have is yours. You know, I mean, that’s just the language I’m using to just talk about the same stuff that you were talking about. You know, it’s, this is just from beginning to end. This is the grace of God. Everything I have is yours.

Nick Hall  45:49  

Yeah. But what about…

Jim Lovelady  45:52  

Everything I have is yours.

Nick Hall  45:53  

 Yeah, yeah, yes, yes, yes. It is. It is. It’s so simple. And that’s where it’s like kids. I just think a kid grabs it and it’s like all use the metaphor often of like this. Everybody, everybody knows we need babies, right? And we know we need babies for many reasons, like one, obviously, is for the future of the human race. But like, in a more practical  self-serving way, we need babies because babies make us happy, like babies and children remind us that life is beautiful, like, with without a child, I don’t see that the sky is pretty. I don’t look up at that tree and say, wow. Like things that I’ve walked by 10,000 times, and a toddler helps me to see it new again, right? And it’s like it just it just and a baby will take the grumpiest person and melt them, right? You see it at the grocery store all the time. Somebody’s crabby and cranky, and also, and they’re making the goo goo face, you know, at the little one. And I just think the same thing is true spiritually. Like if we don’t have new life around us, if we don’t have that rebirth happening before our eyes, we all become that old, crabby person that forgets. And I would argue right now in the west, at least. I don’t know that there’s a time in history when people have had less new believers around them. And so I think there’s a ton of Christians that have been Christians for so long, and it’s been 30 years since they knew a new Christian. And I just think it’s like, that changes, man, that’s everything.

Jim Lovelady  47:41  

That’s an interesting thought. Yeah, yeah. Do you know that? GK, I just pulled up the this Chesterton quote from what you, you said he says, you know, he wrote this 100 years ago. Because children have abounding vitality, because they are in spirit, fierce and free, therefore they want things repeated and unchanged. They always say, do it again. And the grown up person does it again until he’s nearly dead. For grown up people are not strong enough to exalt in monotony, but perhaps God is strong enough to exalt in monotony. It is possible that God says, Every morning, do it again to the sun, and every evening do it again to the moon. It may not be automatic necessity that makes all all daisies alike. It may be that God makes every daisy separately, but has never gotten tired of making them. It may be that he has the eternal appetite of infancy, for we have sinned and grown old, and our Father is younger than we.

Nick Hall  48:44  

That’s awesome. I’ve never heard that before.

Jim Lovelady  48:48  

Oh, man, gets the do it again. Quote, yeah, well, so you’re talking about going deep. I feel like we could have gone deep on a number of things, but we’re kind of, I’m kind of out of time.  Thank you so much for for hanging out. 

Nick Hall  49:00  

Thanks so much. Jim, 

Jim Lovelady  49:02  

Absolutely. Man.

Jim Lovelady  49:03  

What would it look like if Jesus invited you to do the things that Nick is doing? I’m not talking about the big evangelistic events. I’m talking about what started it all: the basics of experiencing God’s grace and how that propels you outward. Remember what he said is this, gather together, pray, return to your first love, catch on to God’s heart for people, and then be bold. Return to your first love. That’s the repentance piece that I’m always talking about. It’s the catalyst for revival. It’s repentance. What would it look like if you did this in your circles and you had a humble attitude of expectation that God would do something amazing? Over and over again, the more I encounter God’s grace. The more it propels me out on mission, out of my own selfishness and self concern to concern for others, seeing people as God sees them, freed to love them and serve them. Everything flows so naturally from this experience of grace, being guilted into evangelism that that never works, living fearful that God will be mad at you if you don’t share the gospel. It’s problematic at best, and neurotic at worst, a self righteous, holier than thou attitude that never goes far, especially because you can spot a hypocrite a mile away, but when you get a glimpse of God’s love for you, and when you experience His grace at the frayed edges of your life, it makes it where you want to talk about how amazing He is, and you become a conduit of His blessing to the people around you. That’s how you become an evangelist, and we at Serge love to help you share the victory of Jesus and show others how to follow him. That’s why we have a program called Discipleship Lab. It’s a cohort style discipleship training curriculum where you join a team of folks in ministry from all over the world, and you dig deep into the heart of discipleship and see how the truth of the gospel fuels your ability to help others follow Jesus. Follow the link in the show notes to see how you can sign up for Discipleship Lab. What a joy it was to get a glimpse into Nick’s work and his passion for sharing the gospel with young folks and raising up a new generation of Jesus followers who want to give their lives for the sake of the lost, for more information about Nick’s ministry and to learn how you can participate in the way that he’s reaching young people and training them up to be evangelists for the next generation, go to pulse.org. And here’s my gospel revival dream. I want young people to come to faith at these Pulse events, and when they want to go on the mission field overseas somewhere, I want them to go to serge.org and start a conversation with us and see how God’s amazing grace will lead them home. I want something like what happened to Laurel Kehl back in Expo ’72 because it’s Gen Z’s turn. Now, as we close off this season, I want to give some shout outs, right? Many thanks to all the guests who came to hang out and explore God’s grace at the frayed edges of their life. Thank you so much for your vulnerability, and thanks to the production team: Grace Chang, Ashlie Kodsy, Rachel Risley, Holly McAfee, Anna Madsen, Hudson Marsh, Tim Cornwell, and Evan Mader. Man, it takes a circus to wrangle me in and make this podcast so amazing. Y’all are so much fun to work with, and you’re just stellar in what you do. And I’m very thankful for you and to all the Serge missionaries, thank you so much for your work. We love you and we miss you. Come over. Come visit. Come visit the home office. Come hang out in the studio and let’s talk here in Jenkintown. And to all you listeners and viewers, thank you for tuning in, and thank you for your desire to follow Jesus into the frayed edges of this world for the sake of His Kingdom. So now, of course, as you go receive the Lord’s blessing. May the Lord bless you and keep you and make his face to smile down on you. May the Lord be gracious to you and turn his bright eyes to you and give you His peace in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, one God, life everlasting. Amen.