The Liberating Power of Dependence

Jim Lovelady: 00:03

Welcome to Grace at the Fray, a podcast that explores the many dimensions of God’s grace that we find at the frayed edges of life. Come explore how God’s grace works to renew your life and send you on mission in His Kingdom. Hello, beloved, welcome to Grace at the Fray.

Jim Lovelady: 0:03

Welcome to Grace at the Fray, a podcast that explores the many dimensions of God’s grace that we find at the frayed edges of life. Come explore how God’s grace works to renew your life and send you on mission in His Kingdom. Hello, beloved. Well, we are in the middle of the fifth season of Grace at the Fray, so it’s probably time for you to hear the story of how I almost died. Actually, this is just one of the times, probably the closest time. This is the one where I went surfing for the first time by myself and I got sucked out to sea in a riptide. And, before you say it, I know, I know now that you’re supposed to swim parallel to the beach when you’re in a riptide, and I know, I know that now you know PSA swim parallel. But I didn’t know that back then.

20 years ago, it was Lori’s and my anniversary weekend and my buddy lent me his board and his wetsuit. It was May and the water was cold. My friend is tall and skinny and I am not those two things. So that wetsuit was extremely constricting and the waves weren’t they weren’t even suitable for a good surfer to surf. On that day, we brought my dog, Charlie, to the beach with us, and he was smart enough to know that I was being stupid, because every time I got close to the water he barked out. Like he barked like crazy, like hey, don’t do that, I know the future, don’t go out there. So how hard can this be? You swim out past the breakers and you catch a wave and you ride it back in. Well, it was stormy, so the waves were just a churning mess.

I tried for a long time to get out there, but I couldn’t, so so I came back tired and I got some water, rested a little bit and then I went back out and and every side of me they’re just waves crashing, until I finally saw an opening, and I paddled in that opening as hard as I could. Well, that opening was a riptide, and I was paddling as hard as I could with the riptide, I felt victorious, until I turned around and saw just how far off the coast I was and I started paddling back to the beach against the riptide, and though I paddled as hard as I could, I kept getting farther and farther away from the beach until finally exhaustion took me. And I’m looking at the distant beach and I see Lori sitting in her chair reading a book and this strange feeling came over me, something that I was very unfamiliar with. I realized in that moment, I need help. So I sat up on the board and I waved to Lori for help and she, very unaccustomed to me asking for help, waved back like I’m glad you’re having fun, and she went back to reading. So I yell and I wave my hands until she finally realizes that I’m in big trouble and she runs along the virtually empty beach looking for someone so she can call 911. This is back before everybody had cell phones. She found someone to call the police and meanwhile I had drifted so far that I had lost sight of the beach when the wave goes down. And then I’d see the beach again when the wave comes back up.

So after a while, as I’m still paddling, a police officer in a blue uniform comes up over the hill and comes down to the beach and he raises up this you know the red Baywatch floaty. He raises it above his head and he’s yelling and signaling something like don’t worry, stop paddling, we’re going to come get you. And I’m like this guy is going to come get me in his Baywatch floaty in his uniform. So I had a mild panic attack, but then I did what he told me to do. I stopped paddling, but that’s when I got really cold and scared. So I started to recite as much scripture as I could. You know, like between chattered teeth. The Lord is my shepherd. I shall not want. He makes me to lie down in green pastures. He restores my soul.

And finally I see the beach rescue truck trailing a jet ski. And then I see an ambulance and a huge crowd had gathered on the beach. So these two guys jump on the jet ski and the waves are a mess right. So they’re speeding their way out to rescue me and they’re jumping the waves and showing off and the crowd’s cheering. And they circled me three times and finally, on the third time, the guy pulls me onto a platform behind the jet ski and we speed our way back to the beach and my board is trailing behind me and the leash that’s attached to my ankle it snaps and I tell the guy my leash broke and he says, don’t worry, I’ll go get your board. And so they zoom up onto the beach and I fall off onto the sand and my dog, Charlie, comes over and licks me in the face he’s like, I told you so and Lori gives me a hug and and they’re giving me some water in the ambulance. And I’m sitting there looking out over the ocean and I see the guy who rescued me surfing my board back to the beach. So he walks up to Lori and he says here’s my number. If your husband wants surfing lessons, have him give me a call. Later that evening, Lori and I, we go out for pizza. I tell you, man, pizza never tastes so good as when you almost died.

So you may be someone with a strong understanding of your dependence on others and on God, but chances are you’re probably like me. You, you are fiercely independent and you’d rather come as close to your own death as possible than ask for help. That is, unless it involves some sort of negotiation where you feel satisfied that you’ve earned the help that you’ve asked for. Well, when was the last time you recognized your complete and utter helplessness and you realized that there was no way that you could make it unless you asked for help? That’s what this episode is all about. We spend a lot of energy developing our own competence, which is a good thing, but watch out. It can become the thing that we depend on for our own sense of self, our safety, our identity. We think when all else fails, at least I can depend on this or that aspect about myself. We are fiercely independent. But it’s a complete and utter lie. The truth is, we can only find real freedom to live into our full humanity when we recognize our constant dependence on God. The enemy wants to shift our dependence away from Jesus onto lesser things.

The entire book of 2 Corinthians is about Paul defending himself from accusations of mental instability, unimpressive communication skills. He’s inarticulate, he’s unreliable, he has selfish motives. But how does he defend himself? He boasts in Christ. Paul says God’s power is made perfect in my weakness. Paul was able to engage in ministry freely, without fear of failure or incompetence, because his glory was in the truth that God uses his weakness to demonstrate His power and build His Kingdom. Ministry through weakness is such a core aspect of how we at Serge see our work and how we experience God’s grace and how we see Kingdom restoration in the world.

If you’re a pastor or a ministry leader, the idea of ministering out of your weakness and vulnerability can seem pretty scary, but I know you long for it. You’ve tasted God’s grace and you want others to experience it too. I’ve been and I’ve seen many pastors get chewed up as they lean into dependence on Jesus and practice vulnerability before their congregants. So I get it. But as you settle in with this episode, my prayer is that you would recognize that God, in his mercy, most often reveals Himself and His grace to us in our weakness, in our brokenness, in our sins, in our struggles. When we embrace the reality of our weakness and depend on Jesus, we will experience God’s grace. And the truth is, our weakness is not an impediment or a problem for our ministry, but it’s actually the thing that God uses most often to demonstrate his power and accomplish his purposes. So the call to be a humble, transparent example, a model of the gospel working in your life, is a call to experience deeper avenues of God’s grace than you have ever imagined. My guest today is a wonderful example of the liberating power of dependence on Jesus.

James Wells was a participant in Serge’s apprenticeship program in Ireland for two years before moving to St Louis to go to seminary to become a pastor. I first met him on one of those Serge office prayer times that I talk about all the time that we pray twice a week together. He was invited to share with us his impressions of his time in Ireland so we could pray for him as he transitioned to seminary and as he talked about his time there, he kept joyfully coming back to the idea that he discovered his weaknesses and that it was always met with God’s power and grace.

Here’s someone who has recognized he is fiercely independent, but he’s discovering his neediness and weaknesses that are driving him to dependence on Jesus. His experience of God’s love has made him both bold and humble, and someone who is more free to love than he ever thought was possible, all because he learned to ask for help. Well, James, welcome to Grace of the Fray man. Thanks for finding a room at Covenant Seminary, thanks for meeting with me as I’m on the tail end of a little trip here to St Louis, and thanks for being an apprentice with Serge. I’m looking forward to hearing your story.

James Wells: 10:00

Well, thanks for having me. I’m looking forward to sharing it. My time with the company was such a blessing and I always love talking about my time as an apprentice, but also my time in Ireland. God really moves. I’m just looking forward to sharing it. So thank you for having me.

Jim Lovelady: 10:16

Yeah, so tell me, how did you end up an apprentice? Was it right out of college?

James Wells: 10:22

Yeah so, not right out of undergrad. I was actually working as a graduate assistant at my alma mater, as an assistant tennis coach, and I went on a job app that our school was with and I was scrolling through it one day and the apprenticeship popped up and it really caught my attention, which is weird to me because I never thought I would be working overseas on any kind of long-term basis.

James Wells: 10:48

Mainly, I think, what the apprenticeship offered. I was in an era of praying for a moment of where I could get out of my comfort zone, but also I knew I needed a lot of growth and a lot of mentoring and I think the apprenticeship was the perfect opportunity to pursue that to get out of my comfort zone and also receive mentoring and kind of grow on every single way we can.

Jim Lovelady: 11:15

So you’ve called them up and you just kind of worked through the process.

James Wells: 11:21

Yeah, I talked to my recruiter and you know she was telling me more about it and telling me about the different fields the apprenticeship offered and you know, after hearing about the different fields, Ireland seemed to make the most sense because a lot of the issues I have gone through or experienced myself that they were saying that was happening in Ireland and I I really my heart really felt for that.

James Wells: 11:48

Yeah, so Ireland used to be as a sending country, in fact, you know, you know the catholicism and things like that, but it’s actually really become a lot more secular lately because of a lot of abuse and church hurt there. Yeah, you know, there’s the stories of the mom and baby homes neglecting widows and orphans and also, I think, what religion brought with the troubles and all the wars and stuff. It really created a lot of wounds in the environment. So I think, in terms of the actual institutional church, there’s a lot of hurt there.

Jim Lovelady: 12:27

Yeah, a lot of baggage.

James Wells: 12:28

Which makes it a challenging field at times to work in, but I do think Ireland is a spiritually hungry country that’s looking for hope and where I have seen God move there. It’s been amazing. I think there’s a lot of opportunity in Ireland to build. I just remember our team meetings. We prayed that Ireland would once again be known as a sending country for workers and I will say, to use an Narnia reference, Aslan’s on the move in Ireland and it was just an amazing thing to experience for two years. It was just a huge blessing on my life, but so many others too.

Jim Lovelady: 13:10

So, for someone who may not know what the apprenticeship is, you did the apprenticeship. You did the two-year apprenticeship, so walk me through what that’s like for someone who has no idea what that is.

James Wells: 13:22

Yeah. So the apprenticeship is kind of an opportunity to, I guess, get your feet wet in long-term missions. Basically you will go to, like I said, I had Dublin but there were a few other fields I think we had Prague, London and a few other ones but you would raise support like any other worker and after you raise your support you would deploy for one to two years where you would come alongside workers in the field and share the gospel there. I know in our team in Ireland we focused a lot on facilitative church planting. So pretty much my week was I would be at my ministry placement for most of the week and then during the summer we did the Encounter Internship, which was a program that mentored both American and Irish university college students. Then we would send them out on O-teams to do ministry throughout the island.

Jim Lovelady: 14:27

O-teams?

James Wells: 14:28

Outreach teams. Yeah, that’s a term we use so it’s ingrained in my head.

James Wells: 14:32

Yeah, pretty much. You come alongside missionaries and serve in a ministry placement, but also you receive mentoring. Yeah, I know I went through Sonship probably a total of two times, Yeah, it was just a really good program to not only get out of your comfort zone and grow, but to also receive mentoring. Learn more about yourself, learn more about God’s delight for you. It’s a uh, I think it’s a perfect program for somebody who realizes they need to grow a little bit more, but also wants to get out of their comfort zone, like they don’t want to play it safe.

Jim Lovelady: 15:11

It’s interesting that you say that they don’t want to play it safe, because what one thing I’m noticing with folks from younger generations, from Gen Z, is there’s this like post COVID anxiety, mental health, all these things. So for you to say that there’s someone out there who doesn’t want to play it safe, I’m like are there people out there? Cause it feels like we’re in this culture that goes I got to figure out how to live as insulated and safe a life as I have, because there’s so many anxieties out there, so many stresses, so many dangers out there. So yeah, speak to that.

James Wells: 15:52

Yeah, I think it’s important, that’s an important thing to acknowledge, particularly with Gen Z. I mean, you just look at the statistics of anxiety, mental health and all sorts of depression. And I think also, you know, as the online world has grown, we realize it’s easier to find community from opening an app on your phone, and it’s important things to consider. But I think also, I think the Lord is inviting Gen Z to be a part of an authentic community and from my work I’ve seen there is a hunger for that, but they just don’t feel safe or, I should say, encouraged enough to go out and take those steps. And I think what it takes is people to love them and encourage them and let them know that they are loved and that they matter, and to build up a what I would call like a confidence in who God says they are, to step out and take those risks.

Jim Lovelady: 16:58

So how did all that happen to you?

James Wells: 16:59

When I first heard about the apprenticeship, I was in a time of it felt like it was repetitive, and I was just like you know, this, something needs to change. You know, and, like I said, I knew I was in an area where I needed to grow, where I needed to face not only my brokenness but also take a step head on. And the apprenticeship came up and you know, and as I was, like I said, as I was scrolling, it caught my attention and I almost felt the Spirit say, hey, look into this? And I remember thinking, like I’ve never been out of the country before, like there, I was thinking of all sorts of reasons why this one?

Jim Lovelady: 17:39

Why to not do this.

James Wells: 17:40

Yeah, and but it just kept sticking with me and it was just so strange to me because it was like anywhere I went, you know know, I saw things about Ireland in my life and I’m just like, okay, all right, God you win. So I’ll look into this and, like I said, as I heard more about it, as I heard more about the company, and I went on the company’s website, checked out the values, it really felt like a breath of fresh air. I remember just scrolling through the statements or whatever and I saw ministry from weakness and that actually made me stop for a good 10 minutes.

Jim Lovelady: 18:18

Oh, really, what about that?

James Wells: 18:19

It was just such a breath of fresh air to me.

But also there was a conflict within me because I think for all my life growing up, I heard about spiritual gifts and strengths and being a good leader and what that means, and I think excellence is a good thing, I think it’s a good thing to strive for, but I feel like it’s so easy to go on down the path of trying to reach perfection that we never can, because everybody has been impacted by the fall, and that’s an important thing to consider when pursuing excellence, and strengths and gifts are a good thing from God.

But I feel like a lot of times growing up I didn’t hear a lot about the weakness part of it, even though in the scriptures, you know, Paul talks about. You know, in my weakness I am strong, right, and I think it’s an important thing to consider and I think it’s an important thing to practice out of not only our strengths but our weaknesses, because it shows that it’s all God. It’s not us for one, but I think also as somebody who really didn’t have a lot of confidence you know I was talking about Gen Z. I mean, I’m a millennial, I was born 94, but I definitely relate to a lot of the late stage millennium yeah, late stage yeahs kid, I guess they’re called.

I definitely relate to the whole anxiety aspect of it. You know it was. I mean, I remember even having a lot of anxiety as I started down the path Because you know, once I started support raising, I was actually head coach at my college, which took up a lot of my time, and you know, it was just very, very difficult for me because I was in a posture of, oh well, asking for help wasn’t easy for me because there’s a lot of risk in that. There’s a lot of well, what if they say I’m just asking for handouts or all sorts of things? And there was a lot of things of how it could go wrong. But I mean, God was faithful and He provided in ways that I couldn’t even imagine, even with my busy schedule. You know, when I had a cousin who is not a believer say, I’m going to give you $200 a month, it’s just unbelievable how God provides when you step out and take that step of faith.

Jim Lovelady: 20:48

Yeah, I want to pause this conversation and invite you to join us in prayer for the Serge field workers that we at the headquarters here in Philadelphia are praying for each week. We meet on Tuesday and Friday mornings to pray, and this week we’re praying for our apprentices all over the world in all the fields. Would you pray with me? Lord, we pray that you would bless these folks, give them joy in their work in Your Kingdom and the pleasure of Your joy as they follow You. Give them wisdom and let your grace abound in their relationships with one another, with family members and children, and with the people they serve. Heal all sicknesses, liberate the enslaved, protect them from the powers and principalities of darkness, restore to them the joy of Your salvation and let Your Kingdom come and Your will be done in these places just as it is in heaven. We pray in Your name, amen. Now back to the conversation.

Jim Lovelady: 21:58

You know, going back to your thoughts about weakness and versus gifts and strengths and everything. When I went on the field in my imagination, what dominated my imagination was like to be a missionary is to be the pinnacle of what it means to be a christian. You know, like super christians go on the field. Oh yeah, it was just like my impression, what I had picked up along the way. And if anyone had said, do you think that? I would say, well, no, of course not. But from my gut I just kind of like that’s what it was. So my expectation was oh, I want to be a super christian, so I’m going to go on the field. And being on the field quickly broke me of any of those kinds of things, just realizing, oh man, I’m a mess. You know, we say all the time, going on the mission field is like pouring Miracle Grow on your sin, because all your sin is there. And now it’s just kind of flowering and making itself super evident. So tell me about what Ireland did for you, uh, in terms of weakness, and then tell me how the Lord lord used that as you were ministering.

James Wells: 23:02

Yeah, you know, when you were talking about the Miracle Grow, the saying reminded me on Zoom, talking to my team lead, they say, uh, you know, nothing will quite expose your sin quite like the mission field, and honestly, I’ll be real with you, I underplayed that. I’m just like you know, I know my sin, you know.

And then I went into it and then I was like, wow, they weren’t kidding, you know, especially in those Irish winters where it gets dark around 3.30 or 4.

Jim Lovelady: 23:31

Oh my gosh.

James Wells: 23:31

And the weather is just like wow. Yeah, I think as I went through Sonship and I realized what I see is only the tip of the iceberg in the terms of my sin, as weird as it sounds, it brought me a bit of comfort as well, because I realized, hey, it’s not just what I see on the surface, but I mean there was also that like oh, wow, I’m more messed up than I thought, but when the other half of that I’m more loved than I could ever imagine played into that, there was a lot of transformation.

Jim Lovelady: 24:09

At every level. You know, the iceberg is a great illustration because the tip of the iceberg is a very small percentage of what is actually going on when you come to an iceberg. Just ask the Titanic.

James Wells: 24:22

Yeah.

Jim Lovelady: 24:22

You know. And so for our hearts there’s, oh, I see this thing. Well, what’s just below the surface? Ooh, that’s kind of scary, but God loves you right there. Well, take it a little bit deeper. Ooh, that’s even more scary, but God loves you More than what that is doing to your heart. God loves you. And then, as deeper and deeper and deeper you go, so you experienced that.

James Wells: 24:50

Yeah, and absolutely. And I remember talking with my mentors and growing up I heard a lot about God being a disciplinarian and things like that and I think it was really ingrained in a lot of my thinking. The hellfire and brimstone kind of thing yeah, it made me more terrified to face the reality of that and to face it head on. But in Ireland I was kind of forced to because I was in a different culture. I was in an environment that where I couldn’t run to the things that would bring me the most comfort that I’m used to back in Ohio. So it’s it forced me to face it head on and I feel like, like the old statement, cheer up.

Jim Lovelady: 25:32

“Cheer up. You’re a lot worse than you think you are, but God’s grace is far greater than you.”

James Wells: 25:36

Yeah, I feel like both of my years were both halves of that statement. My first year as the sin that got exposed and as I faced it head on. I had mentors, I had a team, I had a ministry placement that showed me compassion and showed me grace. And I’m thinking, you know, if these people know everything about me and they’re loving me this way, how much more does God truly love me? Yeah, and you know, the impact that not my team leads and my ministry placement had on my life was just insurmountable. I think God really worked through them to relentlessly pursue and show His love for me.

And, like I said, I think that’s where it caught me off guard, because when I went to Ireland, my mindset was how am I going to be used? Because I was thinking about my strengths, like what do I bring to the table? It wasn’t more like, oh, I am I going to be used? Because I was thinking about my strengths what do I bring to the table? It wasn’t more like, oh, I think I’m better. It was more like I don’t want to be a waste of their time. That was my mindset and I went in thinking how am I going to be used?

But God had another plan. He’s like I’m going to show you what it’s like to receive and I’m going to work through that, use you through receiving. And it just really took what I thought evangelism was, what I thought ministry was and turn it on its head. And I think that’s what Jesus does throughout the Bible. He would take things one step further and you have heard it say love your neighbor, hate your enemy, but I tell you, love your enemy and pray for those who persecute you. He turns what I think culture, the world takes as this is what’s good and turns it upside down.

And during my time in Ireland he did that with what my view of ministry is and I think even now, as I am studying to continue in ministry here at Covenant, it really shaped on my philosophy, on what it is. And you know, as a recovering perfectionist, you know ministry from weakness is still somewhat foreign to me. But it’s like I know that God has invited me into something amazing and I want to share it with people. And you know, and, like I said, you know how He used me during my time on the Emerald Isle, really spoke to me, you know like, and I think God did use, you know my gifts and some of my prior training but, like some of the most intense moments where real ministry was done was when I received. It was I think one of the biggest stories of a challenge that I faced was there was a moment where I had to. There was a conflict that I faced where I lost not only my living space but a friend.

Jim Lovelady: 28:30

Oh, which was yeah.

James Wells: 28:32

And we, there was just a conflict there and uh, and it just kind of came out of nowhere, which really shook me up, and I was kind of without a home and they’re in the middle of a housing crisis in Ireland right now. So it’s there’s a lot of uncertainty there. I think I had church the next day and I remember sitting on the bus and I’m like I couldn’t describe it, it was just heaviness. But I walked in and and I was emotional, I had tears in my eyes. I mean, I was broken, desperate, yeah, and I was in a place where it’s like I can’t bring anything but my broken heart. I have no strength, I have nothing left.

And I walked in to my ministry placement and one of my pastors at the church, Belinda she’s incredible, she’s really good at the care aspect side of things. The whole team was a blessing to me. You know, Michael, Simon, Isaac they had a profound impact on my life and I can’t thank God enough for the two years I had with them. But you know, and you know, I mean like I was so heavy, like I was like what can I do? Like you know, and I went in thinking how am I going to work? But you know, they saw something was on and I broke down and I was in a moment where I just was sitting there and you know. And then they walked down to the coffee shop and bring me a coffee and a cinnamon roll from my favorite place.

And I was just receiving and being cared for. And then, not only that, you know, they announced at church. They’re like, hey, this happened in James’s life and this was during the second year. So I had an Irish ministry mentor. His name is Mark Murray. Again, he had such a profound impact on my life, but they prayed for me and these people that I was serving came up and started caring back for me and encouraging me. I had people open up their homes to me, you know, and I was just in a posture of receiving and it brought a lot of humility because I’m like I can bring nothing here. I got no strength. I’m very discouraged, I’m. I lost a close friendship, I lost where I was living, and yet God is still using me. He’s using me by receiving, by being cared for.

This completely turned what I thought ministry was and turned it upside down, and I think that’s one thing. The whole weakness plays into it. You always hear about serving and being a good steward and I think that is a crucial biblical thing, but I think what also, we need to start talking more about the weakness aspect of it. What does it look like to receive? And I think it’s an important thing, that discussion that we need to have, you know, if it’s particularly for those in ministry, because I think, you know, there’s a kind of a twofold aspect of we have to be good leaders, we have to show excellence, and there’s that insecurity at the leader’s brim. But I think also, when it comes to congregations or things, we need to give space for vulnerability from the pulpit, from the ministry platform.

I’ve seen the statistics. The statistics are astounding, you know, with pastors struggling with burnout, with depression, anxiety, addictions, fill in the blank. It’s astounding and I wonder if God is inviting us into something different, something better, to where he not only uses our strengths but our wounds and our weakness and our ability to not only give but receive well, to reach people. Yeah, you know, and I even just recently, I was reflecting a lot on and, like I said, you know, I went through a lifetime of giving and giving and giving and not letting other people in. So it’s something I’m still learning, it’s something that God’s still working with me on, with his grace and all that. But I realize, you know, there’s a pride almost at the center that I had, like a pride that I didn’t want to let others care for me or help for me. Help me because I wanted to be useful. I wanted to bring something to the table.

Jim Lovelady: 33:06

Yeah, who would have thought when you were raising support that you would be going over to be needy, that when you were there on the mission field, your greatest ministry gift to Ireland was to be needy? That’s just so upside down. I mean, I don’t know that. That’s like a support raising strategy. Yeah, a convincing strategy.

James Wells: 33:31

I feel like you know, talking with, you know with people, I’m sure that would get a lot of strange looks. You know, because you know. Like I said, you know in the world today where excellence is a word that’s thrown around a lot, even in christian circles and, like I said, I think excellence is a good thing. I think if we include weakness, it doesn’t bring excellence down. In fact, I think excellence is strengthened if we embrace the weakness and the limitations of people Because, like I said, I don’t care who you are, I don’t care what pastor, like what church.

Everybody’s affected by the fall. We all have our own sins, we all have our own struggles. We are fighting our own nature in a fallen world, in a world full of disease, war, discouragement, and nobody’s exempt from it. And I think that it’s important that we have that conversation, that we give our missionaries, our pastors, those in ministry, the space to be weak, the space to receive. I mean, I’m trying to remember if it was just recently Pastor Appreciation Day or not, I can’t remember, but there were times I served at a church where I got those gifts. But I feel like, what does it look like if we give the space all year round to encourage our leaders, to pray for our leaders and to say, hey, Jesus loves you, He cares for you, He delights in you.

Jim Lovelady: 34:57

Yeah, it’s the paradox that only can be navigated through the wisdom that the Holy Spirit gives us, because for a pastor to show himself to be weak is is a scary thing, both for the pastor and for the congregation.

James Wells: 35:12

Absolutely.

Jim Lovelady: 35:14

And in that paradox is like okay, Lord, tell me, tell me what it looks like for me to be vulnerable as a pastor with these people. Uh, to show my how I truly am dependent on you and in that dependence, not scare people away, because what it so often reveals is that the congregation that’s looking for the pastor to be Jesus, when the pastor’s like no, I want to point you to Jesus, I’m not Jesus, I need to point you to Jesus. And so often the whole reason why these things come either it’s burnout or it’s a crash and a burn is because the pastor starts to believe his own hype. You know, when a congregation goes, hey, you’re pretty great. The pastor goes oh, yeah, maybe I am.

James Wells: 36:00

Absolutely.

Jim Lovelady: 36:00

And it just becomes very, very dangerous.

James Wells: 36:05

Yeah, and I think there is a balance and I think it’s something that we need to tread carefully and we definitely need to rely on God on, because it is a foreign concept to a lot of people.

But we talked a lot about Gen Z. I think, in particular, Gen Z is on the hunger for something real. I think there is a hunger for spiritual things. I see an increasing trend of people saying they’re spiritual, not religious. I think they’re on the hunger for something real and I think if we truly embrace who Jesus is, if we truly understand who we are, in the midst of that, we give space for God to not only use our strengths but our weaknesses, we can start seeing more people reach for Christ. You know, I think particularly I saw that a lot in Ireland. Early on, you know, building those relationships when people found out what I was, that I was a worker there, that I was working at a church, particularly in Ireland, like I said, with all the hurt and religious, you had to be careful with that. Because people would instantly put up a barrier.

Jim Lovelady: 37:11

Yeah, and they have their expectations.

James Wells: 37:13

Yeah, but I think what it comes down to is, for example, I would hear them out like if they were frustrated with the church or they have gone through a hurt or whatever I wouldn’t rush to defend. I think, with the weakness that God created, it created a sense of humility where, even though, hey, I may not have been responsible for those atrocities that happened so long ago, but they look at me like I’m a part of that and it’s important that I acknowledge, yes, those things happened, those things were awful. And I think, with any sense of church hurt you know it takes, you know us seeking justice, saying like, hey, that’s not, that wasn’t right, what happened was horrible. I still read stuff about Ireland because I’m so passionate about it

Jim Lovelady: 38:00

A piece of your heart is still there.

Yeah, yeah, you can tell.

James Wells: 38:03

Yeah, a piece of my heart is still there.

Jim Lovelady: 38:04

Not just the jersey.

James Wells: 38:05

Yeah, but yeah, I recently read more about the mom and baby homes there and my heart was broken at how the institutionalized church caused so much pain. And I look at that and I think it’s important to show those that the Lord’s heart breaks for that too. It just really took a lot of humility and I think also, you know, through my own stories of going through my own examples of church hurt it led to a beauty there, Like you know, I think what brought down a lot of concern was that I was immediately like, hey, I’m not perfect, I don’t have it all together. I need God’s grace every day. And I think also the repentance of realizing, hey, the church has done some damage, but I think with that it shows that I can show them who Jesus really is, that Jesus isn’t the church, that Jesus isn’t the pastor, He isn’t the bishop or the pope, He’s His own perfect, loving being that cares for us and desires to redeem every single part of our life.

Jim Lovelady: 39:23

Yeah, and even that broken church He loves that broken church.

James Wells: 39:27

Absolutely, absolutely, yeah, you know He, even with that aspect, He desires to redeem that as well. He desires to redeem as far you know as one of the books I read during the apprenticeship as far as the curse is found. Yeah, you know it’s, He desires to redeem all of that and I think, as pastors and as missionaries, it’s important that we think about that, that we look at every single person as an image bearer that God desires to redeem, and that includes us. And if we make room for that redemption, for God to start that and to work through our strengths and our weaknesses, we see the redemption really play out.

And, like I said, God used my weakness, my vulnerability, more than anything else. And I had good training. I got an undergrad in christian ministry from a really good school and had some good professors there, and I think He did use part of that. But, like the most intense and intimate ministry was done was when I was vulnerable, like God used things I didn’t expect, like He used my love for sport to reach people. Like then that was probably one of the most impactful things He used and I was like, this is I thought it was just a hobby, but God turned what was a hobby into.

How am I? I’m going to build relationships through this.

Jim Lovelady: 40:50

Yeah, it’s fantastic.

James Wells: 40:52

And uh, yeah, it’s, and, like I said, it’s something that I’m still even trying to implement today. You know, like what does it look like to receive in seminary? What does it look like to let others care for you? You know, it’s something that I’m still walking. You know, and I think it’s for a lot of people it’s going to take a lot of time to implement this, because we hear we’ve heard so much about excellence and spiritual gifts growing up and, like I said, I’m not disparaging those, because those are good things, but I think we also need to include the other side of it.

Jim Lovelady: 41:24

Yeah, I love what a two-year apprenticeship did in your life. It’s just the density of what God did is so fantastic. So I appreciate you telling your story and sharing some of those things. And, yeah, it’s wonderful to see how the Lord just flips things upside down.

James Wells: 41:50

Absolutely.

Jim Lovelady: 41:51

Thank you so much for hanging out.

James Wells: 41:52

Yeah, thank you for having me. It was a blessing,

Jim Lovelady: 41:55

Absolutely.

Jim Lovelady: 42:02

If this conversation has piqued your interest about Serge’s apprenticeship, go to serge.org/apprenticeship and begin a conversation with us. That could turn into an amazing journey of experiencing God’s love as you share His love to the people that He already loves. This episode brings so many things to my mind, but I’ve been meditating on Mark 10 lately so of course I’m fascinated by another aspect of how the people closest to Jesus, the professionals you know the quote, unquote professionals the disciples, and specifically James and John in this story, who asked to sit at Jesus’ right and left hand in glory, they’re so caught up with themselves and they’re trapped by their own need for glory that they don’t recognize their genuine need and they don’t realize that the joy of the Kingdom is found in humility. Then, a few verses later, we see a humble beggar, blind Bartimaeus, crying out the words that we should be crying out the first thing every morning. We should be saying, Son of David, have mercy on me!” This guy understands his neediness and his brokenness and Jesus meets him in that place. My guest today got an opportunity to see God work on the other side of the world and he wanted to be a part of that over there. And then he goes over there to help out. He becomes overwhelmed by his weakness and neediness, because the reality for all of us is we just aren’t independent. We’re made for complete and utter dependence on Jesus, and it’s God’s kindness to reveal all the ways that we’re living independently of Him.

Missions and cross-cultural ministry have a fantastic way of putting you in the place where it becomes easier than ever to cry out, “Son of David, have mercy on me. Of course, this isn’t the only way that God, in His kindness, brings you to this realization, but it is a unique and rather powerful way. Remember the illustration that James talked about, the idea that mission work is like throwing Miracle Grow on your sins. Whatever is in the soil of your heart is going to grow, and all of us? We have a lot of weeds. So I’m thinking what are some of the common ways missionaries are confronted by their own weakness and brokenness, and in what ways are they invited to renewed dependence on Jesus that they didn’t know they needed, except that they threw Miracle Grow on their sin when they went on the mission field? Well, we had some new missionaries in the office last week and they talked about some of these things and they wrote them down on a big sheet of paper in the conference room. So here’s some of the things that missionaries tend to struggle with and are surprised by when they go on the field, and this is kind of general and specific.

Find yourself in this. How about language difference, the feeling of incompetence, leaving church, community, spiritual isolation, the appropriate etiquette that you need, like manners at meals? How about different patterns and schedules, warm versus cold cultures, indirect versus direct communication, time zones disconnecting you from family and friends? Travel is difficult, constant goodbyes, how to fit in with cultural norms, living on financial support, what things cost with new budgets and new currency and maybe you took a salary cut and different food that you may or may not like, different ways of transportation, things that just feel wrong because they’re just different. Lots and lots of different, even specific habits and struggles that you develop while you’re over there. If you’re serving cross-culturally right now, look for these today. If you’re partnering with a missionary through your prayers and financial support, pray for them about these things right now. And, while you do, look for where these things might be revealed to you. If the conditions are just right, like maybe Miracle Grow of being thrown on your sin.

And what do you do when you see these things? What do you do? You repent. You say, “Son of David, have mercy on me. You have a loving heavenly Father who already knows and already loves you more than you can imagine. And He lets you see those things not so that you can have self-pity or so that you can try harder. Think you can try harder next time. He shows you those things because He wants you to experience his love. And repentance renders your fierce independence to be what it really is powerless, because the gospel is the power of God unto salvation. That’s how his salvation power is made perfect in your weakness. So as you go, learning the liberating power of dependence on Jesus, go with the blessing of God who loves you. So may the Lord bless you and keep you. May the Lord make His face to smile down on you. May the Lord be gracious to you and turn His bright eyes to you and give you His peace. In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, one God, life everlasting, amen.

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