Campus Ministry, Anxiety, and the Call to Mission

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Welcome to Grace at the Fray, a podcast that explores the many dimensions of God’s grace that we find at the frayed edges of life. Come explore how God’s grace works to renew your life and send you on mission in His kingdom.

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0:00:22.6 Jim Lovelady: Hello, beloved. Welcome to another episode of Grace at the Fray. You know how much I love stories. All of my favorite stories, books, shows, movies are about the protagonist leaving their familiar world and being thrust into a strange one. That becomes a catalyst for them to grow as an individual through challenges as they defeat the dragons within and the dragons without ultimately coming to the end of themselves, which enables them to sacrifice themselves for the sake of their friends and community that they love. And once this transformation takes place, they return victorious to their home, and they bring with them the things that they’ve learned, the treasures that they’ve won, and it makes their home a better place. It’s the hero’s journey. This is the dynamic of every great story, but really it’s the dynamic of the Christian life. In fact, it’s the cruciform life, the life modeled after the quintessential hero, Jesus. The Lord of Heaven, who did not consider equality with God a thing to hold on to, who humbled himself in his incarnation, became a human, and was tested in every way a human can be tested. And in humility, he became obedient to the point of death on a cross. But He conquered death and ascended to Heaven, highly exalted, and he brings his people with him. This is the story of all stories, and it’s rich with mystery that God would become human to unite humanity to God. Since this is Jesus story, it’s our story too. And today’s episode is a great example of that. Today’s episode is the story of a woman who initially didn’t want to do ministry, but the Lord winsomely called her to leave her comfort zone, follow her Savior to minister to college students. And in, and through many challenges, she’s experiencing transformation, both for her and for the students that she’s working with. And that inward transformation is propelling them out on mission, which in turn is transforming them. And when they come back home, they come back changed by what they’ve experienced, and it changes everything at home. It’s the hero’s journey. At Serge, we call this dynamic renewal leading to mission. But it’s not just linear gospel renewal propelling you on Kingdom mission. It’s a dynamic that happens kind of all at once. Real renewal and mission happen together all at the same time. So, for example, if you’re going to church and attending Bible studies and doing your quiet time and really experiencing the love and grace of God. But it’s not propelling you outside the borders of your life, leading you to love others and seek the restoration of all things, then you’re missing something. You’re missing out on someone. After all, faith without works is dead, but being on mission with Jesus is life. It’s exciting and often scary, but it makes for the best stories. So my guest today is Joy Benton. She works with RUF Reformed University Fellowship at Belmont University. And she’s been taking her students on mission with us at Serge in our short term trip called LEAP Week. And at the end of this episode, I’m going to show you, how you can go on LEAP Week too. So, check the show notes now. Joy is living out the dynamic of Gospel renewal leading to Kingdom mission. And it’s a dynamic that’s happening in Joy’s life and in the life of her ministry and in her students’ lives. And as we talk, she’s going to touch on the common issues that she sees in college ministry like anxiety, community, friendship, technology and more. And as you listen to this conversation, look for the ways gospel renewal and Kingdom Mission are happening all at once. Or maybe it’s circular like renewal leading to mission leading to renewal. Either way, it’s an exciting dynamic filled with all the emotions of the greatest stories, the highs and the lows of life in God’s Kingdom. Life lived in fellowship with God: the life we were made for. So here’s the big question. Are you willing to leave the safe confines of your comfortable life and let God renew you, as you follow him on Mission? 

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0:04:47.4 Jim Lovelady: Well, Joy Benton, welcome to Grace at the Fray.

0:04:51.8 Joy Benton: Thanks, Jim.

0:04:53.8 Jim Lovelady: So you’re at Belmont University with RUF. I want to hear some of your story and how you ended up getting into ministry. So ready, set, go.

0:05:06.9 Joy Benton: No, thanks for asking that. Yeah. So this is my sixth year working with RUF, which I think when I say it out loud I’m like, oh my gosh, it is six years post grad and in ministry, but I have gotten to serve here at Belmont campus for four years, this is my fourth year. And I had a very different experience before that at engineering school in Huntsville, Alabama. And so going from that to a liberal arts, very artsy school has been really actually incredible. And I graduated from a SCC, very just social school. And so I feel like it’s God’s plan to have me here in a whole different demographic.

0:06:00.8 Jim Lovelady: So you went from Alabama to Belmont? 

0:06:02.4 Joy Benton: Yeah, and I have just seen kind of how the Lord meets different types of students and I would have never thought that that’s where I would be. And in vocational ministry and also in Nashville with Belmont. And so, when I was graduating I was applying for a lot of different things and had no idea that the like, RUF or ministry would be my full-time and what I do. I grew up a pastor’s kid and so I knew about the church, I knew what it looked like to work in ministry and saw my parents do that very well, but just didn’t think that it would be for me. And so, it has been six years of seeing the Lord’s providence and provision. And yeah, I just have really enjoyed it so far, so.

0:07:04.4 Jim Lovelady: Say more about how you, you said, I didn’t really think that this is where I would end up doing ministry. So hey, say more about how you ended up doing ministry.

0:07:15.8 Joy Benton: Well, God has ways that sometimes we don’t understand. But I graduated with a degree in psychology and as a senior in college, I was like, I’m not sure what God has for me. I had seen a lot of what ministry looks like and a lot of the hardship too. And I just was very hesitant to dive full-time into ministry. And so as God was healing parts of me in that and also as I was just praying to see kind of what is next, RUF popped up out of nowhere. And to me at first it was just an interview. I was like, “Oh well, I’m just doing a lot of interviews, a lot of applications for a lot of different places. So I’ll just go ahead and do that as well.” Not thinking really much of it. And it was doing the interview and being asked questions is always good. I’m like to be asked questions and for people to be curious ’cause it kind of opens up a different place in your heart or your eyes into new things. And the way they were asking questions, I was just realizing how much I’ve learned from the people that were in my life in my college years. And how even just them walking alongside me without doing much was so helpful. And it’s like the Lord just healed that part of me that I was like, ‘No, I can’t do. I’m not going to do ministry.” And through prayer, it just something that I thought I would never do is say, “Okay, I’m going to be in full-time ministry.” Was the only kind of way that I was like, “Oh no, actually this is the one thing I want to do.” And again, that was only for two years. So being here for six years, I’m like, the Lord knew what he was doing and how he was preparing my heart, preparing just kind of my story.

0:09:19.3 Jim Lovelady: That’s wonderful. You said you’re PK and so I totally get it when you’re like, I don’t want to do ministry. I’ve seen the good, the bad and the ugly closer than most people really understand. And so it is kind of this beautiful and kind of remarkable miracle, like parting of the Red Sea kind of miracle where it’s like, “Hey, I’ll do anything, but I’m not going to do that.” It’s a no brainer, I’m not going to do that ’cause that’s… It’s hard and I understand deeply how difficult it is. And then the Lord’s like, “Yeah, but I’m going to, you’re going to want to do this.”

0:10:00.5 Joy Benton: And I’m going to make you want to do it too.

0:10:01.8 Jim Lovelady: Yeah.

0:10:02.9 Joy Benton: It’s beautiful ’cause I really didn’t think that that would be the case. [laughter]

0:10:06.9 Jim Lovelady: That’s wonderful. Yeah. Just, I guess that’s what in under the christian dictionary of change of heart. That’s kind of like, that’s a thing where you’re like, “No, my desire is to impact people the way I was impacted by people.” And so, what’s it like doing ministry? I did campus ministry over 20 years ago. So I’ve been curious, what’s that landscape like? What’s it like to be discipling and sharing the gospel with students and bringing students into ministry and training them in ministry leadership and I don’t know. Talk to me about what it’s like for the last six years.

0:10:52.4 Joy Benton: Yeah, well, I had the unique opportunity of starting ministry right before COVID. So I started 2019 and still remember what it was like then. And then kind of how it’s shifted post COVID and across different demographics too. But in my context, it has been beautiful to be able to be on campus. I think that’s the first thing that I don’t take for granted is that to be able to be on campus and we’re able to do activities on campus. And so, being able to do small groups or our large group or different hangouts and social activities on campus is just beautiful. That’s the first thing that I’m just to be where they live and do school and eat and do everything is just, I think one of the most beautiful things. And even just last night, I went with a few students to go to a basketball game. And being there with them and what they do at night, ’cause all of our, most RUF stuff is usually in the morning that I’m there for. And so just to be able to be there and see how it is, I’m like, that is such a gift. And that is a big part of the ministry, is to just walk alongside them and what they do. I just love that part because we get to have fun with it and we get to meet students where they’re at. So students who love going to basketball games, others want to do crafts, some want to watch movies, and we get to do all these things together, which is beautiful. But it’s also walking alongside them in four very beautiful but hard years of coming to one’s faith on their own. And classes that professors are just talking about a lot of different opinions and a lot of different philosophies. And so, being able to have the privilege to ask questions and just sit in the student center and here and just take in what the reality is that might not have been my reality when I was in college is just such an honor that I just have to remember every day that that is not a given. We earned that trust. And I just think that is so beautiful. I feel like COVID brought up to the surface a lot of things that was kind of already going on, but maybe had a facade of something else.

0:13:24.0 Jim Lovelady: Yeah.

0:13:24.3 Joy Benton: And we see that a lot in our leadership. We have the leadership team in our RUF group. And last year was the first year of the freshmen that came in during COVID. So the first year of COVID they graduated.

0:13:44.3 Jim Lovelady: Oh, gotcha, right? 

0:13:46.3 Joy Benton: Yeah, they graduated last year. And so that was the first kind of class that had COVID kind of be a part of their whole four years. And it has brought up a lot of anxiety, as it did for a lot of other people. Being home, watching things, being on social media, on Instagram, on TikTok, and hearing a lot of things. And so anxiety has definitely been one of the bigger things that have come to the surface.

0:14:12.6 Jim Lovelady: Talk about some of how that anxiety gets manifested. That’s a big word, right? So talk of, give me some examples of that.

0:14:21.7 Joy Benton: Some of it is social anxiety. And so it’s like, who am I and how can I be myself with a big group of people or even just a small group of people after years of being scared to be with people and having a lot of fear around that. And so, that’s something that I personally have had to pray about and try to understand what the reality is, is that some people are having a hard time coming to a large group. They want to sit back, not be noticed. And how can we reach people without being too forward, maybe with it and giving them time and space to just take a breath and just be there and seeing where Jesus meets them in those places. So that’s definitely been a big one. I think another part is even anxiety of seeing too much on social media and so not knowing what’s the truth, what’s actually happening. They’re taking in a lot of things, they’re taking a lot of truths and being able to sit with them and kind of help them discern between all of that, kind of relieves some of the anxiety, but also just shows that there’s just no way for them to find relief from that anxiety except in Jesus. There’s nowhere else. And then those are kind, are the big ones. But also, everybody goes through kind of personal anxieties and leaving home or moving away.

0:15:54.5 Jim Lovelady: Right. That’s really helpful for me. My daughter is 17, my oldest daughter is 17, and we’ve been looking at colleges and my personal anxiety is when I wake up at 3:00 in the morning, sleepless and anxious, it’s about that. So it’s like I’m on the parents’ end of this and you have this mediatorial kind of place where you’re ministering to these folks and it’s really interesting. I don’t know the science behind this. I heard this somewhere, right? So I’m already, it’s already an information feedback loop because I can’t source where I’m about. The information, the accuracy of the information I’m about to convey to you. But think of it as an analogy. If it’s real, if it’s scientific, that’s great. But it’s more of an analogy. Okay, so I say that, I say all that as a caveat for how I’m understanding that where you’re talking about students just there’s this flood of information and they’re seeing, like you said, they’re seeing too much. It’s just like overwhelming all this. What’s happening in Indonesia, that’s none of my business, but I know and now I’m anxious about it because I don’t want bad things to happen on the other side of the world. And so what do I do with that? Well, I’m powerless, so there’s nothing I can do. Well, so here’s the analogy. I heard that, you know how a dog likes to stick its head out the window, when driving down the road? So I heard that at a certain speed, the dog will come back into the car. And I always thought that it was like, “Oh, the wind is just like blowing too hard on the dog’s face or whatever.” But I heard that, no actually, at a certain speed, information is coming at them so quickly that their brains cannot translate that information into anything useful. And so it just becomes abstract colors and sounds and smells. And ’cause, you pass a Wendy’s and at 40 miles an hour. What was that? Well, it’s gone. You pass, whatever a Chinese takeout place, seconds later. So the smells, the sights, the sounds are just coming at them. And so eventually they become so flooded with all of this abstract information that they come back inside. That’s why they come back inside. But I’ve thought, especially when you’re saying they’re seeing too much, I’ve thought about it, they can’t stick their head back in the car.

 That it’s just like, here it is. Here’s everything, just like their eyes are peeled open, and here’s all the information, and you just have to take it in. And I go, of course that’s going to cause anxiety. Of course that’s going to be overwhelming. Of course it’s going to be debilitating. Does that make sense? 

0:18:55.2 Joy Benton: Totally. One, I have a dog, and so I can’t even see him kind of doing that. But I see that even within myself, kind of being like, “Okay, when can I be on my phone, and what things kind of overwhelm me.” And there’s more that keeps coming, and so I do think, and that’s just my personal kind of observation, is that we’re kind of turning a leaf a little bit where people are realizing how overwhelmed social media is making them. I know I’ve had a couple of students who are like, “Okay, I just need to put my phone on black and white so that I’m not being sucked into my phone.” And so I feel like they’re starting to realize a little bit how dangerous it is and are kind of just trying to figure out, “Okay, well I need to do something about it.” because of how anxious, they’re feeling and how anxious their friends are feeling too, ’cause they are all talking. They’re all in the same community. And so I totally see that.

0:20:09.7 Jim Lovelady: That’s really interesting. I didn’t realize that phones could go into black and white mode. I may have to.

0:20:15.0 Joy Benton: Not much. Not talked about much. But they’re starting to realize and even now, kind of in the holiday season, seeing a little bit on social media too, of like, there’s new things that people are trying to figure out as a solution to not being on our phones or not being addicted to our phones. So I feel like it is sort of now that we’re becoming more aware of the issue and how dangerous it is, but it is definitely everywhere. And so…

0:20:42.5 Jim Lovelady: That’s pretty fascinating. I’m imagining how I use my phone and the courage that it would take to be like, you know what? I’m going to put my phone on black and white. The minute you said it, I was like, well I would miss out on all the colors. [laughter] That’s what black and white is.

0:21:00.6 Joy Benton: What am I going to be able to see if I can’t see these things or, yeah. It just alters. Which there is some research out there that, the phones are the, colors in the phones are very addictive. And so that’s where I think it’s coming from. I’m not sure. I haven’t read anything about it, but I think that’s kind of where our culture is that we’re just trying things, let’s just be creative. Let’s figure out how to help each other.

0:21:25.6 Jim Lovelady: Yeah. But just the very fact that, you know what we need to cut this out of our lives. But we need to do it together. And so the fact that you’re a part of a community that’s wrestling with these things, and everyone’s just being. Trying to practice an intentionality of “Hey, we recognize that this is a major source of our anxiety.” It’s delivering the anxieties straight to us, but it also is a source of that, when with the dopamine, the immediate dopamine rush that you get from going to the next scrolling to the next thing, it’s translating the information, but it’s also a source in and of itself. The other thing I thought was interesting about what you said in terms of the social anxiety Post-COVID, where people are like, “I don’t know how to be around people anymore. I don’t know what the expectations are. And when I go to look for the expectations, I’m sucked back into the craziness of all the information that I get.” How are you seeing people lean into that one? 

0:22:35.9 Joy Benton: I’ve had a few conversations, just even this fall, about friendships. And what are friendships, and it kind of started out of a curiosity from me seeing a lot of students say, “Oh, my best friend or my bestie.” And I was like, okay, let’s kind of dive into that. ‘Cause it felt like, it was like, “Okay, I have my two best friends, and that’s it. I don’t need anything else.” And my curiosity was like, okay, well what is, why do we have friendships? And what is that like even on campus? Because there’s a lot of anxiety that comes with like, “Oh, am I friends with the cool people, or who are the people over there?” And I remember that.

0:23:25.7 Jim Lovelady: I still have that. What are you talking about? [laughter]

0:23:29.1 Joy Benton: It’s always like, in the back of my mind. But I just have realized that because of social anxiety, it feels vulnerable to be in big groups or to say your opinion in a big group. And what that actually, or how they perceive that and perceive themselves in big groups, I think has been a really interesting thing to see, even within leadership to understand, okay, how do we say things out loud and say our opinions without being fearful of how we’re being perceived? And kind of where that social anxiety has just heightened? I think it has been there before in different ways, but I feel like it has been heightened recently. And in conversations just trying to understand their reality and what it looks like to have friends and what does it actually mean for them? Is it just something for people to agree with me or to love me? Or is there also part that I’m like, I also gift to the friend. And I also, and we see, it just like in the Bible, a lot of, what community looks like. And just thinking about the man who’s paralyzed and his four friends, just like they’re the ones that really did everything that they could, put a hole in the ceiling just to get him to do that.

0:25:01.4 Jim Lovelady: Super rude thing to do, by the way, but…

0:25:03.7 Joy Benton: Right, in a whole house. [laughter] But they did everything that they could. But kind of remembering what that is, and why they did that and how does that look right now in our culture, there’s so much friendship that looks something on social media but in real life it’s not. And so are we seeking kind of the image of friendship? Are we actually seeking the actual friendship. And that also goes into romantic relationships. That has also been a very interesting kind of, think conversation to talk about of people are just scared. You’re scared, if I say this, this way, are they going to perceive me as this? Instead of like, it’s just so heightened right now. And so just to be able to be on campus and listen. There’s many times that I just sat and listened for a while to understand the reality. ‘Cause sometimes it doesn’t make sense. I’m like, it is your life and it’s what’s happening right now. I don’t want you to stay there in some of these thoughts, but I do want to listen and to be able to walk along alongside them. I’m like, that is just so important. And this is the first year that I even felt another layer of importance of campus ministry. My younger sister-in-law is a freshman in colllege. And getting to even hear from her what it looks like, I was like man, what we do on campus is just so important on so many levels, because of just the anxiety and the kind of where the culture is, and just to be there to remind students of the truth and bring him back to the Bible.

0:26:57.0 Jim Lovelady: Some of the things that come to my mind are how hard it is to express your opinion in a group. The kind of courage to be vulnerable makes it where you’re going to risk being canceled at every little thing you say. And so for you to come on campus and go, “Hey, you can say whatever” because grace, God’s grace is big enough to handle these things as you’re figuring them out. Because we’re all just figuring stuff out. And so I’m not going to cancel you because you don’t have it figured out. I don’t have it figured out. We are all in desperate need of God’s grace.

0:27:39.1 Joy Benton: Well, and you feel there’s a lot of healing when you are in a part of the community that is grace-based. I remember I felt that when I stepped into RUF and that is a lot when we ask students kind of what made you stay in RUF, that’s a lot of what is being said. So there’s a healing to be a part of a community that is grace-based. That is kind of counter to the culture that we live and of cancel culture and more. So, I really get that. Yeah.

0:28:19.0 Jim Lovelady: Yeah, anybody who raises their hand to say something hopeful is going to get dashed by the cynics who are ready to just cut them to pieces, you know? 

0:28:30.4 Joy Benton: Totally, totally. Yeah.

0:28:32.9 Jim Lovelady: Yeah. One of the other things that you said that I think is really wonderful, and this goes back to the social anxiety thing, it reminded me of Zacchaeus, of how Zacchaeus is he’s like, I’m going to hide up in this tree. I want to see. I’m interested in this dude. I’m curious about this dude named Jesus, but I don’t want to, I’m definitely not going to go running up to him. I’m definitely not going to make myself stand out here. I’m going to hide up in this tree so I can see him, but kind of be in the background. And Jesus is like, “No, I see you. I’m going to your house and I’m going to change your life.” And so just being on campus, the power, you keep talking about things that just remind me of like the power of being present with people, the power of just being with people. And it’s very little agenda-driven other than, “I just want to be here.” So that when Jesus wants to love you, he gets to do it through me, that kind of thing. So it’s just, presence is very powerful.

0:29:39.0 Joy Benton: It is the most beautiful time to see students what they’re doing, in their element. And that sometimes brings out things that they might not bring out in a one on one meeting where I’m asking questions and we’re sitting across from each other. And so, I just think it’s beautiful. It’s part that I… Is one of my favorite parts of doing ministry. It’s just those incarnational ministry moments, for sure.

0:30:11.1 Jim Lovelady: I’m going to pause this conversation and invite you to join us in prayer for the Serge field workers that we at the headquarters here in Philadelphia are praying for each week. We meet on Tuesday and Friday mornings to pray. and this week we’re praying for our teams in Thailand. Would you pray with me? Lord, we pray that you would bless these folks, give them joy in their work in your Kingdom and the pleasure of your joy as they follow you. Give them wisdom and let your grace abound in their relationships with one another, with family members and children, with the people they serve. Heal all sicknesses, liberate the enslaved, protect them from the powers and principalities of darkness. Restore to them the joy of your salvation and let your Kingdom come and your will be done in these places, just as it is in Heaven. We pray in your name, Amen. Now back to the conversation. 

0:31:10.0 Jim Lovelady: So what are some of the challenges, mostly to your own personal faith as you’re ministering. Because you didn’t want to get into ministry because you know how hard it is, right? Well, it didn’t stop being hard. It still stays, ministry still stays being very difficult and the drama and all of that is very present. So like, what is… How are you trusting Jesus in that? What does that look like as you wrestle with that? Because it’s a wrestling match. It’s totally a wrestling match.

0:31:38.4 Joy Benton: I’m like, do we have enough time to talk about it? [laughter] It is a daily choice to trust in Jesus and trust Jesus and my students’ lives. I think there are so many conversations where I have, where I feel like I want to do something to fix it or to help them. And it is so humbling to be like, I can’t and I have to pray and spend time in prayer. Sometimes that’s hard. Sometimes I’m like, I know I can figure out what I need to do, what do I need them to do? But just to pray for them and to know that that is the most that I can do for them. Sometimes it’s hard. And especially when it comes to stories that students have entrusted with me that are really heavy and that involve a lot of brokenness and relational brokenness and hurt that they’ve experienced. And so I think that’s definitely, it is sometimes a heavy job where if I don’t rely on the Lord and if I don’t trust the Lord with what I do, it would be an impossible thing to do. It’d be an impossible job. And so I think that’s definitely a big part that I’m still learning in it. I’m not perfect, but I think I recognized early on. I can sit here and cry with you, and I can sit here and listen and grieve with you, but I also need to pray with you, and after I leave those one on ones to know that God’s got them and it doesn’t do me or them any good to sit in it, worry about it. And so that’s definitely a hard thing to do ’cause I don’t want to numb it. I don’t want to be like, oh, well I’m not going to think about it, I’m not going to worry about it. But at the same time I don’t want to worry all the time. And so it’s kind of relying on God and in a lot of these situations that are kind of just, again like a daily choice of prayer and starting my day in prayer and starting one on ones in prayer.

0:34:18.9 Jim Lovelady: Yeah, I love that. It’s okay. We talked about the power of presence and now we’re going to talk about the power of prayer. I’m a pastor, I can’t help myself. It’s…

0:34:28.2 Joy Benton: Oh, I love it. And that’s part of my story too. Man, I think my first four years of ministry were really hard personally. And I was in a time where my mom was diagnosed with cancer and I was one of the main caretakers and I was doing ministry all the time and also losing her and still doing ministry. The Lord was teaching me so much about prayer. But also there are times where I was like, ‘Why do I pray?” Can I, do I need to pray? And in those moments, and that’s just where the Holy Spirit is. That’s how I know that I am not the one that decided to do this job was that there was a student that came to me, she was like, “I would love for you to go through a prayer book with me ’cause I just love how you pray.” And I was like, not me. I was like, looked behind, is he talking to somebody else? 

0:35:32.8 Jim Lovelady: Like, is he talking to me? 

[laughter]

0:35:36.5 Joy Benton: But even in that, it was a blessing to me, and knowing that I’m not here because I have a lot to offer. But I’m here because God can work through me. And even in the hard things, I had a really hard time saying yes to her. And that ’cause I was like, I’m dealing with my own things, with prayer. I don’t know if that is appropriate to share, but saying yes. God kind of showed me what the power of prayer and those one on ones and it’s beautiful. She’s now my sister-in-law. Didn’t think that could happen. But even just seeing the gift that that is in the life of my family in a time that was really hard. But I decided to say yes because I knew that that is what God called me to do. And seeing that He did have good things and gifts and of itself, it’s just beautiful and a reminder, it’s a tangible reminder that he is with us. And I was like, whoa. That, I wouldn’t have thought that I would be the one to be like, yeah power of prayer. ‘Cause I was like, it was hard. It was really hard. And so prayer is such an important part. It’s been, my mom was a great prayer warrior, and just that is the biggest legacy that she’s left.

And to be able to see kind of God not giving up on me in that, around me saying, hey, I don’t know if I can pray right now. And continuing with it, it shows the power of prayer. And so we can talk about power prayer as much as we want.

0:37:28.7 Jim Lovelady: I love it. Yeah. The victory of God is that when you go, “Jesus, I don’t really feel like praying.” He goes, “Yeah, tell me about it.” And you’re like, well, I’m just frustrated and I’m mad and I’m doubtful and I’m tired and all of these things. And He goes, “Yeah, tell me more.” And you’re like, well, this one thing. And I’m worried about this thing, and I’m just tired of this. And that’s why I don’t want to pray. And Jesus is like, “Well, what do you think we’ve been doing this whole time?” I’m glad you actually gave me the brutal honesty, because that’s where grace is going to abound. So I love it. And you’re talking about daily. I have to daily pray. I have to daily pray. And it’s like relinquishing the control that is so tempting when a student is struggling with this or that. And you’re like, “Hey, let me tell you what to do.” And Jesus is like, “No, don’t tell them what you think that they should do.” Just pray.

0:38:27.0 Joy Benton: Yeah.

0:38:27.7 Jim Lovelady: So, all right. Power of presence, power of prayer. I don’t know what next one we’re going to talk about, but I do want to hear you talk about, you got to know Serge through the LEAP program. So you went over to London and you’ve done it two times already? 

0:38:47.7 Joy Benton: Yeah.

0:38:48.7 Jim Lovelady: All right, talk about that experience with… From your perspective and what you saw when you brought students with you.

0:38:54.3 Joy Benton: Yeah, it’s just something that we’ve been two years and getting ready to go a third year next year. And it has been, I think, for me one of the most well structured trip. And I personally have enjoyed it every time, and I’ve learned something new every time, which it’s the same every year. It doesn’t change. Maybe minor changes, but I’ve learned something different every time for me. And…

0:39:32.2 Jim Lovelady: Give me one.

0:39:33.3 Joy Benton: I’m going to sound cheesy, but prayer walks. On prayer walks in London and being like, I can do this here. I can walk and I can pray and I can do these two things on campus. And I remember in London how it opened my eyes to things physically, like buildings or stores or people. As we were just walking and praying. And it is just so beautiful that being back here in my neighborhood and praying and walking, seeing things. Even though I live here, I’m seeing things differently or my eyes are opened on new things. And so, that kind of is tied to. I just really was so inspired and moved by how the team members there were living in the borough that they were, serving in, that they were eating. It just, everything was in that one spot. And how that…

0:40:48.5 Jim Lovelady: They are wonderful, aren’t they? 

0:40:49.3 Joy Benton: They are beautiful. And it’s just that’s even ministry in of itself. And that almost like, I recently got married and so I had a lot, the opportunity to be okay, where are we going to live? What are we going to do? And that just really kind of shaped how we do things of like, can we live in the place that we go to church and that we can eat the food in the area, so that we know the people of our area. And it’s been just the most beautiful thing to build and to see kind of how God moves in just the ordinary. And so those are kind of two things that have shaped and impacted how even I do ministry and how I am here in the States.

0:41:39.7 Jim Lovelady: That’s wonderful. It’s fantastic. Everyone who goes and comes back, they’re just, they come back changed. And there’s some people who go and go, I gotta go back and I gotta live there. So it’s fantastic. So what was it like for your students? 

0:41:57.5 Joy Benton: We’ve had those stories and actually recently with a senior who’s graduating, and we’ve been meeting and praying for what the Lord has for her. But she came into Belmont, and her sophomore year, we went to the LEAP trip together. And the Lord has just totally changed her calling in life. She’s already went back for a whole summer with Serge last summer. And it’s just beautiful. I talked to so many seniors, and a lot of seniors are like, “Well, I’m trying to figure it out. I’m not sure I’m applying to a lot of these different places.” And she has been like, “I need to go to London and I need to go.” I’ve never, and it is beautiful ’cause I was like, well, what do you think? What if you go and do this, and trying to kind of… And she was like, ‘No, I know exactly what I need to do.” And that’s so beautiful ’cause that was born out of the LEAP trip. And I just thank God that she came on that trip. She’s not a student that I thought was even interested in missions at all. And it’s just a joy to have walked through that with her and continuing to pray of her desire is so strong and I just, I love that. And that was born in London and is nurtured as she’s been like for three years. To call her and to the mission field, which I just think is just beautiful. And students that are not yet called to go overseas, but the ways that they do ministry here. I remember talking to a few students and we were just talking about, debriefing after we came back from the trip here and asking them what they learned that they can take with them. And they’re like, “Day to day in the practical life. And one of the students was saying that, it is so easy to talk to people. I can just say, “Hey, how are you?” And I was like, man, that is just so beautiful because it is easy to talk to people here.

0:44:23.7 Jim Lovelady: And it goes back to the whole thing of social anxiety. Talk about a strike against what the enemy wants to do with social anxiety.

0:44:33.4 Joy Benton: It’s amazing. And being like, “Hey, we’re going to go play volleyball. Why don’t you come with us?” And even doing evangelism in that way, they’re kind of like, this is the way we need to do it. And that was so encouraged from the trip that they went on to be like, “Yeah, we’re just going to talk to people. You don’t need to tell them all you know about Jesus and the Bible and tell them everything that they need to know in two minutes.” But it’s just talking to them, seeing their story, telling them a little bit of your story. And that has just been beautiful for our leadership team here to see the students who did go on the trip last year and the year before, pour into the students here and how just changing the way they view ministry and their capacity to do ministry is just beautiful. And it’s again, I know people probably, I’m sure people pray for the students that are coming. And it’s that is so felt.

0:45:36.8 Jim Lovelady: Yeah.

0:45:37.2 Joy Benton: And when they come back here, it’s just, I just think it’s just so remarkable and beautiful.

0:45:44.8 Jim Lovelady: And there’s something really, really amazing about going somewhere, go somewhere different. Go somewhere different and have experiences that are outside of your normal, outside your comfort zone, and meet God in new ways that you would never have met if you stayed. It’s just the way it is. And I can’t really say much more about that because every individual who goes, has their own experience and they bring that experience back to their context changed.

0:46:14.8 Joy Benton: It doesn’t just stay there. It changes them as people and they meet God in just a different way. And we know that that is a lasting change. And so is just beautiful to have seen that and the love that they have gotten for prayer and for evangelism. We now have a prayer team on Belmont’s campus. And I think half of it is people that have been on the trips in the last two years. We’ve had a Bible study or a small group really, that is focused on non-believers or people who are new to the faith. And those are people that also went. And so it’s just beautiful to see how the Lord is even furthering his Kingdom. Not just where the trip was, but it’s kind of coming back here, which is beautiful. ‘Cause that wasn’t our intent behind going, right? That wasn’t like, “Oh, we want to go so that we can help ourselves here.” But God blessed the students that went, way more than they could have ever imagined.

0:47:24.0 Jim Lovelady: Yeah. One of the things that is wonderful about it, is that about going, is when you set out to go on this journey, it’s kind of like, “Yeah, I kind of want to have an impact over there.” There’s something about that. I kind of want to have an impact over there. Well, it doesn’t take you long to recognize that you’re pretty much powerless to impact, especially in a week. And there’s a lot of cynicism, talk about people being cynical about short term mission trips. There’s a lot of cynicism about it because it’s like, you can only ever do damage. That’s a cynical lie. And it’s like, yeah, there’s been a lot of horrible things that have been done in the name of, “Hey, let’s go have an impact in some faraway country.” And we try to have a more humble posture of expectation and open handedness where it’s like, “I recognize that I want to have an impact, but I’m not going to be surprised when I discover my weakness and when I am overwhelmed by my weakness and my inability and how in that I’m going to meet with Jesus in some really new and spectacular ways that that actually it’s above my pay grade to know what kind of impact I’m having.” All I know is that I have been impacted by the gospel and when I go back home, I’m going to bring that with me. It happens every time.

0:48:45.2 Joy Benton: Yeah. No, and that’s why, we had a hard time keeping to the limit of how many people we could take this year because students are impacted and they’re telling more students to go. And I just think that is so beautiful because it’s not even us saying a lot of things, it’s students being like, “Hey, when I went and I was really scared and I was, do all these things, but God met me.” And that they just experienced that and has such a power on their lives, so.

0:49:18.9 Jim Lovelady: Yeah. So I work for a mission sending organization and it is very much a part of my agenda to be recruiting people to go on the mission field. And so here you are this liaison that is present with folks, praying with folks, and then I don’t have another P. But looking for helping them find their calling. And if it is, like the individual you talked about, that she was like, “I gotta go to London.” Sorry, I gotta do this. Finding those people and encouraging them. So what are some of the things, what are some of the challenges for that? Were you seeing students that are like, you know what, I kind of similar to your story where you’re like, I’ve seen it, I’m good, I don’t want to do that. Everyone’s story is going to be different. But where are you seeing the challenges to recruiting and mobilizing people for ministry? 

0:50:13.0 Joy Benton: One that is very minor, is we’re asking them to give up their one week of break and their spring semester to go and experience something different and to help in ways that they might not even know how to yet. And I think that is definitely like it’s a big ask, but it is a beautiful ask. And I think that’s what I tell them is you’re going to learn so much about yourself, about what God is doing in other countries. And so that’s why this ask, that is a really big ask is important. I do think another challenge is what students have seen tabling here or evangelism on the street is here. And when we tell them, ‘Hey, this is what we’re going to be doing there.” They’re like, whoa, I don’t know if that’s the best thing to do. And I have had a conversation with a student about that and she ended up coming and she was just like, “This is not at all what I thought it was going to be.”

0:51:23.0 Jim Lovelady: Right.

0:51:23.9 Joy Benton: And so that’s another thing where the connotation of street evangelism here, could be a challenge. But once you see it done, what the intent behind it is and even the culture there, how it’s different, it switches of like, “Oh, I’m just seeing it from my context, but I haven’t seen what it actually does in a different context.” And so I think that is some of the cynicism that is challenging, but I don’t think I’ve had one conversation with somebody that had that cynicism going in. Coming back, being like, “Oh, that was a terrible thing. I don’t want to do it again.” They’re like, “Oh, well, we actually do some tabling here. Maybe I can come and help with it.” And you’re like… And so that is another challenge that I think is hard. And again, maybe not done well here. That is just great. Raising support, some students. Yeah, that’s just always a challenge. And they’ve learned that, learned very important lessons, even just through that and talking to people. And it’s very maybe not satisfying, but it opens parts of their heart about what they feel about mission trips and why they’re going, when they ask and tell people, this is what I’m doing. I’ve had a lot of conversations after they’ve started talking to their families or to people that are going to give money. And they’re like, “Oh, well, I’m not sure if I need to go anymore.” And I’m like, let’s talk about that. Are you going because you’re going to have the money and God is going to provide that. Are you going because you are interested in learning what God, in different countries? And so, I feel like those would be probably my three that I’ve seen at least with my students the past couple years. Yeah, and we’ve had, it’s been a great time of doing cross cultural ministry too. That is just very different. That kind of expands what you think about a lot of things. And that has been one of the just most beautiful things of, “Oh, what is rude there?” And even going to worship places and being like, “Oh, so they do that?” Oh, well, we actually kind of do that sometimes when, and even in Christianity are we supposed to? No. And I just, it’s… Yeah. And going into dark places and just feeling like, man, this is spiritually heavy and I haven’t experienced this before and how to talk about that and how to pray about it and God is at work and even in those dark places. So, yeah.

0:54:25.0 Jim Lovelady: That’s awesome. Well, keep bringing students to LEAP, keep coaxing them to step out of their comfort zone. I really appreciate that you’re living life with these folks and you’re shepherding them and you’re feeling the weight of shepherding folks and you’re wrestling with Jesus about that and then just in the middle of all of this ministry, you’re like, “Hey, let’s go explore what it would look like to be doing ministry in a different place and see what Jesus does and all of that.” So, man, and this is very helpful for me as I’m just exploring and learning how to speak the gospel in different ways to different folks, and so I appreciate, I learned a lot from this conversation. So thank you.

0:55:19.0 Joy Benton: Well, thank you. I have, yeah. Just, it’s a privilege to be able to share a little bit of what looks like every day for me with others. So thank you so much.

0:55:29.7 Jim Lovelady: Yeah, absolutely. You’re amazing. Keep it up.

0:55:32.6 Joy Benton: Thanks.

0:55:40.5 Jim Lovelady: So ever since this conversation with Joy, I’ve been keeping my phone on black and white mode. And let me tell you, it’s been pretty boring. My screen time is down. It’s been pretty great. If you don’t know how to do this, well let me show you real quick. On the iPhone, I don’t know what to tell you, you Android folks. I don’t know what to tell you other than, I don’t want to hear it. On the iPhone, go to your settings, then accessibility, then display and text size, then color filters and turn that on. And I know you’re going to want to try the green-red filter, because it’s called Deuteranopia, but don’t, choose grayscale. Boom, black and white. You’re welcome. So let’s get back to our original question about your willingness to leave the safe confines of your comfortable life and let God renew you as you follow him on mission. What does it mean to follow God on mission? It means to follow the God, who is on mission. Have you thought about the fact that God is on mission to bring his Kingdom on earth, as it is in Heaven, to establish his rule and reign as far as the curses found, to bring everything under his dominion. So that everything is put to rights, so that justice is fully satisfied and mercy fully expressed. This is the mission of God. The gospel isn’t an invitation to receive a free ticket into Heaven with an assignment to get holy so that you’re fit for Heaven. The gospel is liberation and invitation to participate in what the resurrected Christ is doing in the world right now. And your pursuit of holiness is actually just the fruit of repentance and dependence on the one who saves you because he loves you. And created you to participate with him in the restoration of all things. So whether you’re a missionary in some far off country or a student in school, whether you’re serving in professional ministry somewhere or you’re working in a cubicle, you were built for the gospel renewal and Kingdom mission dynamic. You are invited to experience the transforming power of the gospel to change you, to wake you up, to propel you out of your selfish, self-centered ways and then embody your real identity, your freedom to love the people around you, the way love works in God’s Kingdom. This may be a bigger picture of the gospel than you previously imagined. And I find myself once again inviting you to take the missionary risk, to come experience God outside the borders of your current experience. So follow the link in the show notes and sign up for the summer LEAP trip or one of the many other short term trips that we offer for this summer. I’ll also leave links to some blog posts about short-term trips. And finally, I want you to go pick up this little book, Life Changing Mission. It’s a 10-day devotional book written by our missionaries that is perfect to bring with you on your short-term trip. If you’re a ministry leader getting ready to take some folks on a trip, go get a box of these, link in the show notes. Now, I’m so thankful for this conversation with Joy and for folks like her who are leaving their comfort zones to follow Jesus and helping others do the same. The dynamic of gospel renewal and Kingdom mission, this is the making of the best stories. So if you have any thoughts or questions about this, email me podcast@serge.org. I’d love to hear what you think, but for now, go live out the story of your Heavenly Father, the one that he has called you to and go with his blessing. May the Lord bless you and keep you and make his face to smile down on you. And may the Lord be gracious to you and turn his bright eyes to you and give you his peace. In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, One God, Life everlasting. Amen.