Breaking the Algorithm: Letting God Curate Your Life

Jim Lovelady: 0:03

Welcome to Grace at the Fray, a podcast that explores the many dimensions of God’s grace that we find at the frayed edges of life. Come explore how God’s grace works to renew your life and send you on mission in His Kingdom.

Hello, beloved, welcome to Grace at the Fray. The story of the rich young ruler in Mark 10 is one of my favorite stories in the Gospels because it reflects the reality of someone who is doing everything they can to make their life as good as they can possibly make it, but something is just lacking. It’s the story of the man who came to Jesus and said good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life, the good life, the best life I can have? And Jesus says to him why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone. And then Jesus tells him you know the commandments: don’t murder, don’t commit adultery, don’t steal, don’t lie, don’t cheat, honor your father and mother. And the guy says to him teacher, I’ve kept all of these things since my youth. He’s done everything that he knows is the right thing to do in order to have the best life that he can imagine. This guy isn’t just rich because he has a lot of money. He’s rich because he’s the best. At least, that’s what he thinks and that’s what the people around him think but he still has this nagging feeling that, no matter how well he’s been curating his life, he still lacks something. In what ways are you curating the best life that you can imagine? What kind of wealth have you accumulated? Is it money? Is it popularity? Is it popularity, power, beauty? What are the things that you’re saying yes to and the things that you’re saying no to so that your life can be exactly the way you want it to be? For example, where are you saying yes to kale juice and no to Trader Joe’s dark chocolate ganache cake? This episode is not sponsored by Trader Joe’s dark chocolate ganache cake, but, man, man, it might as well be. Or how about the sacrifices you made in order to get into this or that organization, or get your kids into this or that school? Or the things that you’ve done to get your dream job? Or, like the rich young ruler, all the rules that you followed so that you can feel like you have the approval of God and the people around you? Think about the ways that you’re curating the best life that you can imagine by the end of this episode. Today, you are going to discover a God of grace who loves and rescues a rich young ruler like you.

Jim Lovelady: 2:49

Well, my guest today is Katie Guerrero, and Katie is Serge’s internship coordinator and she stands at the crossroads helping college students explore cross-cultural ministry and she guides them as a mentor during their internship and she debriefs with them when they return from their internship. In this conversation, we talk about what it’s like to recruit students for the internship and she puts her finger on an interesting phenomenon, about how our phones are enabling new ways for us to curate the life that we always wanted. And I want to explain this a bit to give you some context for this conversation, because her observations about this little handheld technology are more than just a great metaphor for things like desire, longing, beauty and love. It’s the smartphone as the window revealing to you the life you’ve always wanted. It’s the smartphone as mechanism for discovering your purpose, finding your thing, curating the life you always wanted. It’s the smartphone as a technology that promises to give you all the things you lack community, purpose, belonging, intimacy and you get to be in charge of curating all of that. What would the rich young ruler do with his smartphone?

Jim Lovelady: 4:06

We live in such a fragmented, hyper-individualistic world that enables us to construct and curate a lifestyle just to our liking. But none of it is real. And that seems to be okay for so many folks and for our younger Gen Z and Alpha, it’s kind of all they’ve known. These things are part of our cultural milieu, but there is a remnant of Gen Z that has a spirit-filled desire for more. That’s why they’re talking to Katie, because the things that happen in a summer cross-cultural ministry experience just don’t fit on a phone. A picture doesn’t do justice and there’s no way a social media feed can reflect the beauty of such an experience.

Jim Lovelady: 4:48

And, by the way, I have a special place in my heart for her work because back in 2000, I did the equivalent of a summer internship with a different missions organization and it set me on a trajectory of moving to that country to do cross-cultural ministry and it gave me a framework for understanding the mission of God to reach, renew and restore this world for His glory. And I have never been the same since that trip. This is a conversation about control, digital technology, beauty and deep desire and the invitation to something more trusting God enough to let Him curate a life that is greater than we could ever have imagined. All right, Katie Guerrero, welcome to Grace at the Fray. You made it. I’ve been pursuing getting you on for pretty much since the beginning of this. I think I don’t know how many times have I asked you and you’re like, uh, I can’t do it, or…

Katie Guerrero: 5:50

Yeah, I have not been dodging you, but maybe just a little bit intimidating for sure. Like as an introvert that likes like action. Sitting in a stool for like an hour is like my worst nightmare. So if I’m spinning in circles.

Jim Lovelady: 6:05

Yeah, it’s a swivel stool.

Katie Guerrero: 6:06

This is going to be like a fidget spinner, like in real life.

Jim Lovelady: 6:08

So I’ve been told more than once that these are the most uncomfortable stools. They looked really cool when I bought them on… Like I’m looking at the picture on Amazon, I’m like those are perfect. And then they come in the mail and I’m like what? Yes, it’s like this small.

Katie Guerrero: 6:22

It’s like a kid stool.

Jim Lovelady: 6:24

Yeah, I thought it was going to be, so I was deceived.

Katie Guerrero: 6:28

As, like a tall person, I’m used to like tiny chairs, like being an airplane and economy or yeah, this is just normal.

Jim Lovelady: 6:36

Welcome to the cheap, uncomfortable Amazon chairs that look cool. They have a cool aesthetic,

Katie Guerrero: 6:41

Aesthetic. Oh man, makes sense later. It will make sense later. They have a cool aesthetic, aesthetic. Oh man we’re going to. Yeah, makes sense later.

Jim Lovelady: 6:46

It will make sense later. We’ve had a lot of really fun conversations about some of these things, but first I want to hear more about you, and I guess I’m really thankful that MOB, mobilization team, had their annual meetings this weekend and that you were able to make it with a newborn baby into.

Katie Guerrero: 7:05

Yes.

Jim Lovelady: 7:06

Yeah, congratulations.

Katie Guerrero: 7:07

Thank you. Yeah, she’s four months old, so it feels like newborn and also like it’s been an eternity. Those four months, yeah, everything changes. So, yeah, I’m glad we could bring her and, yeah, me and my husband could be up here together. It’s a fun time being with the the Serge fam.

Jim Lovelady: 7:21

yeah, he’s watching her right now.

Katie Guerrero: 7:23

Yes, oh yeah, he’s watching her right now. He’s watching you right now he’s watching.

Jim Lovelady: 7:32

He’s watching the amount of sleep that you’re getting yeah is minimal, I’m assuming

Katie Guerrero: 7:37

It’s crazy. Yeah, I’m glad it’s kind of like you know the cool, like moody vibe in here, otherwise you could see like the bags under my eyes. I feel like yeah.

Jim Lovelady: 7:47

Lori and I. We have three and this is your first, so I don’t you know, I don’t want to be all doomsday on you, but like we woke up.

Katie Guerrero: 7:56

Tell me, tell me

Jim Lovelady: 7:57

Eight years. We woke up in our oldest was eight years old, right, and we. It was like a Saturday morning. We both woke up and we’re like hey, did you, did you get a full night’s rest? Yeah, did you? Yeah, we realized that we hadn’t gotten a full night’s rest for eight years.

Katie Guerrero: 8:18

That’s fine, that’s fine.

Jim Lovelady: 8:19

It’s going to be fine. It’s going to be fine.

Katie Guerrero: 8:22

Yes, the ministry through weakness is just going to be like perfect alignment with who we are at Serge right?

Jim Lovelady: 8:27

Yeah, it’s quite an adventure.

Jim Lovelady: 8:28

So thank you for thanks for hanging out.

Katie Guerrero: 8:31

So, so it goes a long way yeah.

Jim Lovelady: 8:32

Well, you know you were already making fun of me for how much coffee I drink. I do love my coffee, so so you, you head up the internship program here with with Serge. I want to hear, I want to hear more about that, I want to hear a lot about that. But first tell me you know who are you? What are you up to?

Katie Guerrero: 8:49

Yeah, yeah. So Katie Guerrero, my title at Serge is internship coordinator, so that kind of just means that all the fun, ups and downs and chaos of the internship is, yeah, my baby to kind of walk alongside. It’s fun and kind of like full circle. Because I came to Serge over a decade ago when I was an undergrad still through the summer internship, I was an intern with our team in Bundibugyo, Uganda, and yeah, we’ll probably get to talk more about that later.

Katie Guerrero: 9:17

But yeah, it was a really transformative thing for me, having grown up in kind of small like southern evangelical christian bubble and was really good at the like fake until you make it christianity and like performance as an oldest daughter and so many things about who I am that you could like tie back into that.

Katie Guerrero: 9:34

But yeah, just like being cross-culturally being mentored, being really outside of like my context and comfort zone in East Africa, a place that I like didn’t have any answers for, was a really good thing for my faith and my walk with the Lord and kind of a pivotal moment.

Katie Guerrero: 9:49

So, yeah, I was a teacher overseas in North Carolina where I lived for many years kind of in between, and then during COVID, the great shakeup, the Lord kind of, yeah, opened the door for me to come back and I wanted to be with Serge and they said, hey, how about the internship? I was like, great, that’s all I know, like really about you know, career missions is just having done an internship. So, yeah, whenever people are like, oh, I support you as a missionary, I’m kind of like am I a missionary? But like I am. But it’s just kind of, yeah, my experience is the short term and supporting other people college students often you know that will come through, yeah, the summer summer program. And then anybody just like in a season of transition and kind of like searching for vision, who comes through the year long internship, yeah, just get to like walk with them and explore and it’s a it’s a great honor.

Jim Lovelady: 10:45

So yeah, so we have short-term trips, like summer and spring break trips. Uh, then we have the two-year apprenticeships, but this is kind of in between. So talk what. What exactly is the internship?

Katie Guerrero: 10:59

It is, yeah, it is in between.

Katie Guerrero: 11:01

It’s kind of just like the I don’t know like the the cousin of both of those things.

Katie Guerrero: 11:07

Yeah, the internship for the summer internship is pretty specific.

Katie Guerrero: 11:11

You know, it’s eight weeks that you’re going with a cohort of other like 19 through mid-20s to join one of our like 30 plus teams. It’s a time of spiritual mentorship where long-term missionaries who have walked through the highs and lows of cross-cultural ministry and missions can share their stories and, yeah, kind of feed into and impact your faith and also allow you to come alongside them in missions work, be that like children’s ministry and helping with evangelism outreach and getting kind of a taste for what it is to do cross-cultural missions work. Yeah, it’s also like language and culture exposure and just getting to be a part of the global church, which I think opens a lot of people’s eyes for, like the first time, yeah, that the church isn’t just like the little corner of it that we grew up in. And then we also have something that we call the vocational internship, which, yeah, it’s just like up to a year that people who have giftings and skills like medical or educational, engineering, whatever, could apply that to a felt need that one of our teams have

Jim Lovelady: 12:08

Like a specific need.

Katie Guerrero: 12:09

A specific need, a specific job description and, yeah, you get to like just serve for that year in that role. And a lot of people will use that as maybe a time of discernment yeah, if they’re called to maybe longer term in that field. So it can be just a time of searching and exploring as well, but it looks a little bit different.

Jim Lovelady: 12:29

I’ve been like oh man, I want to hear you talk about what you love about the internship, about what you love recruiting folks to the internship and some of the challenges that you’re you’re facing as you’re, as you’re bringing people into this new adventure.

Katie Guerrero: 12:45

So oh, thanks, yeah, I mean it’s. It’s awesome because, like, like I said, I get to spend a lot more time with like college students than I would, and being like 10 years removed from my own college experience makes me feel like young and cool. So, yeah, just like hang out and yeah, what I appreciate about like about students is the kind of vulnerability and like honesty that they show up with. I think they just don’t have like enough time in their schedule to like pretend anything different. When you’re like scheduled 15 minutes of like studying, class work, everything you’re just like.

Katie Guerrero: 13:16

When you have a minute to talk, it’s like this is who I am and like where I’m at.

Jim Lovelady: 13:19

Just there is, yeah, here’s everything.

Katie Guerrero: 13:21

Yeah, and I like that because it’s not all the kind of yeah, pretending that the rest of us can do so yeah, I mean, I think that’s a piece that I really love about it, just the honesty of, well, you know, I’m a believer, I’m a Christian, so I believe in kind of the Great Commission, whatever that means, and that God is calling me to go outwards. But also, this is all I know, like here, my campus, so I don’t really know how to do that.

Katie Guerrero: 13:56

And yeah like a question that I just hear college students asking a lot is like, ok, after these four years are up, like what’s supposed to give my life purpose next? Because this is like the first time they haven’t had like their life planned out and, you know, maybe like four year segments, and so it’s kind of like a precipice of what’s next. And I think that’s like relatable for us too, cause I know I can feel that like when a season is done, what gives my life purpose next? Or if I don’t get that job or whatever you know. So it’s relatable question to all of us what gives our life purpose? But you know, college students y’all are really open to like just saying it out loud what we’re all thinking. So yeah, I love that that’s a part of it.

Jim Lovelady: 14:28

Everyone that I’m talking with with the mobilization team sees themselves as a guide at the crossroads, and it’s fun to hear everyone’s different crossroads right. So your, your crossroad, where you’re standing as a guide, is different from, uh like, the conversation I had with Dan Macha, or the conversation I had with Michelle Hopping, uh about where they stand in guiding folks. So, talk, talk about the unique nature of recruiting folks right out of college.

Katie Guerrero: 15:02

In some ways, like it’s a really beautiful and I’m not going to say easy thing. But you know, college students, y’all are flexible. You’re, like I said, at this precipice and in some ways willing you’re not set in your ways yet like willing to take the next step that the Lord might be calling you to, but at the same time, like, if you’re asking this vulnerable question out there into the ether of like, where is my purpose going to come from? Like people are going to respond to that and not always in, like, the most helpful ways. So, yeah, I think one of the challenges of like standing at that crossroads with students and younger people is that, yeah, it can be sometimes hard to discern the voice of the Lord or to not necessarily know what the calling is, or to put so much pressure on knowing the whole 10, 20, 30-year plan that you don’t know how to just take the next step and trust that the Lord will use that next yes to really bless you and guide you and write a good story in your life.

Katie Guerrero: 16:04

So one thing I feel like I get to do you know I’m somebody that struggles with anxiety too is maybe just to receive some of that, the anxiety and the unknowns, and help, yeah, people just kind of dilute it down to like what could be a next step. You don’t have to decide forever now and God is not necessarily, you know, calling you to that yet and like help them sift through a lot of the voices. Yeah, something I think, like I’ve heard students say when we’ve talked about this topic, is like okay, well, if I’m looking for my next purpose, isn’t it like good enough just to like find my thing and like hunker down and do it and like find what makes me happy? It’s like, isn’t that just enough purpose? Do I even really need to think about like calling or, yeah, this bigger idea of like…

Jim Lovelady: 16:46

Oh gosh, yeah, unpack that.

Katie Guerrero: 16:47

Placing on my life. Yeah, like okay Again. So I’m not a sociologist, so I don’t know if I you know, I’ll say this in any

Jim Lovelady: 16:53

Well you can talk about what you observed, absolutely.

Katie Guerrero: 16:57

makes you happy, like you know, find your thing.

Katie Guerrero: 17:00

I feel like the way that, like I visualize this or like hear this from people is like, oh well, you know this, this one friend, they’re like really into like fitness and health. So after they graduate they’re going to go become like a life coach and they’re, like you know the influencers that they’re just going to be like super athletic their whole life and they like know that that’s their thing. That’s not my thing. You know, I’m going to go over here and for me, like I feel like a thing that has like, yeah, captivated my kind of attention is, um, like I love to um, like read and to just kind of spend time in like my cozy corner and like I’m really tall but I’m not an athlete at all and I knew that like really early on. Um, people were like constantly asked me like isn’t basketball your thing? I had to be like no, like I’m super clumsy.

Jim Lovelady: 17:48

No, a book nook, like that’s my thing.

Katie Guerrero: 17:48

Yes, a book, nook. Cause I literally ran the wrong way up a basketball court in 11th grade when I like played for one year, much to like my dad’s horror. So yeah, like, if you can figure out,

Jim Lovelady: 17:58

Like that’s my girl.

Katie Guerrero: 18:01

Yeah, you know, if you could just figure out like what’s your thing, that you’re good at, that makes you happy, like that’s maybe good enough, you know.

Jim Lovelady: 18:07

Yeah, and and you know we were talking about this earlier how influential our phones are in helping us figure out what our thing is, or even how, how they become a window into what we would love for our thing to be, even you know, even if it can’t be.

Katie Guerrero: 18:26

Yeah, yeah for sure. Like I mean, I think I’m maybe a millennial, maybe Gen z. I’m like right in between

Jim Lovelady: 18:33

You’re a zillennial.

Katie Guerrero: 18:35

I feel like that’s so obnoxious. I’m special.

Jim Lovelady: 18:37

I well, I’m a, I’m right between, I’m in the micro generation. Okay, the three-year, the super special oh, wow zinials is what they’re called okay, we’re special so there you go yeah, well, but yeah no for like for millennials.

Katie Guerrero: 18:51

I know that like thing on the phone that like captivated our attention was like Pinterest. We all got like really obsessed with like I’m going to like build my perfect life and even though I’m like 12, I’m going to like plan out my wedding and, like you know, just make like this is the house, the mansion I’m going to buy and it’s going to have all these things. And then I am not like really a TikToker, but like I know, like on TikTok, I see it, by the time it trickles down to Instagram, cause, again, I’m ancient Gen Z. Um, you get like all the like aesthetic core. You know that people have that’s like oh, this is my thing. I’m going to make like a whole influence page about the specific style that I love. So yeah, I feel like you’re totally right that the phones are like windows, into kind of that desire to like find our purpose or like our thing, you know.

Jim Lovelady: 19:38

Yeah, well, this, this is a whole world, right, like I started, I got on TikTok basically in 2020, I think, kind of when everyone was like, well, I guess I can’t go anywhere, I guess I’ll go on TikTok and and and you know, you’re talking about how we’re curating our the algorithm for for the things that we, that we like, and ever since you know, so you and I were talking about this yesterday or something how the algorithm like shapes, what you get to see and your, what was your algorithm? You’re like I’ve worked really hard on this algorithm.

Katie Guerrero: 20:15

I’ve shaped my algorithm, I’m in control. Yeah, no, like I mean, you first get on there and the for you page is just like crazy cacophony. And then you like I mean, I’ve perfectly selected, like I want to see Christmas countdowns and fall aesthetic.

Jim Lovelady: 20:30

What’s a Christmas countdown?

Katie Guerrero: 20:32

Oh my gosh, it’s just an account. That’s literally just like. It is 320 days till Christmas and the next day one million one million likes. Yes Yes yeah. And the next day, one million, one million likes, yes, yeah. And it’s just like a community of people in the comments that are like, yeah, I love Christmas, snowman, snowman, snowman, Christmas tree emoji. And it’s like cheerful and happy yeah, because I’m not the person that can like doomsday scroll about news. I have to have like separate conversations and things about that because it’s like so overwhelming. So I’m like my algorithm is like cheerful, upbeat escapism. Here’s someone in their kitchen baking cinnamon rolls, in a corner with like an espresso machine and like matching mug collection.

Katie Guerrero: 21:08

Sourdough bread.

Jim Lovelady: 21:09

Have you ever made your own sourdough bread?

Katie Guerrero: 21:10

During COVID. Yeah, like all of us, I went crazy and was like I’m going to become a baker, and the sourdough starter in the jar grossed me out on day two and I threw it away.

Jim Lovelady: 21:23

So that was my like. Oh, we have sour, we have starter. Oh yeah, in our refrigerator when Lori’s wanting to pause it, but when it’s like it’s go time, it sits on the counter above my espresso machine

Katie Guerrero: 21:31

you’re already saying things I didn’t learn because I didn’t get that far. You guys are for real.

Jim Lovelady: 21:36

I know more about sourdough bread than I would like, but you, you’re like her, her, her feed is all gardening stuff. Okay, you know.

Jim Lovelady: 21:44

So, in my feed. It’s interesting. Ever since you started talking about curating your feed like being very intentional, I think, for it, it I was. I’ve been very thoughtful about like what has been on my feed over the last frequently, but then there’s been these epochs of like uh, I went through months where everyone on my TikTok feed was like deconstructing Christianity, and then other folks who were like biblical scholars, and then other folks who were like um, conspiracy theories, and then other folks who are like ah, what were some of the other things? Oh, like short stories and

Katie Guerrero: 22:19

sweater catalog.

Jim Lovelady: 22:21

That’s right, you stay just a second too long.

Katie Guerrero: 22:25

Yeah.

Jim Lovelady: 22:25

And oh, recently it’s been like different kinds of toothpaste, so there,

Katie Guerrero: 22:29

oh, okay, you got a reclaimer algorithm. It’s gotten away

Jim Lovelady: 22:32

It’s all over the place because, well, so it reflects my interest, like I’m interested in basically everything.

Katie Guerrero: 22:39

Yeah.

Jim Lovelady: 22:40

I am annoyed by all the toothpaste commercials that I’m getting lately. Yeah, so like scroll, keep going.

Katie Guerrero: 22:46

Yeah, yeah, I get so like easily overwhelmed by like way too many interests. So, like mine, is this like the cozy cottage core? I think that’s what we like determined when we were talking about it like what it’s called.

Jim Lovelady: 22:57

Cozy cottage. Oh, I looked it up. Yeah, so, like the whole aesthetic core. I asked my children what my aesthetic was. Okay, yeah. And my son said uh, what do you say? You’re like hipster, old money core dad. And I was like okay, and then I asked my daughter yeah I asked my daughter and she’s like I don’t know. And I said what’s your aesthetic? And she said you’ll find this insightful. She said, well, it changes, for whatever I want to be today.

Katie Guerrero: 23:22

Okay, that is insightful. Yeah, yeah, that’s awesome. She’s maybe more like well-rounded or yeah, thinks more intentionally, probably about her Instagram and her social media.

Jim Lovelady: 23:31

But each one has a title, each one is an aesthetic. It’s not just random, it’s all in conversation with. It’s all in conversation with what everyone else is doing, mediated through this window, this technology.

Katie Guerrero: 23:45

Right, yeah, they found a community of people that also like that thing. That’s their aesthetic. They’re curating their lives together. They’re like this is what we can do, which is comforting.

Katie Guerrero: 23:55

Like I find that way, like I said, even about the Christmas countdowns, it’s fun to be like, oh, there’s 8 million other people.

Jim Lovelady: 24:00

I’m not alone.

Katie Guerrero: 24:02

It’s fun to be like, oh, there’s 8 million other people that are also having a hard day and just need to think about jingle bells. But it is like an illusion, like saying that out loud, you can hear it of like well, she’s delusional, it’s March. Uh, like, you know why is she thinking about Christmas? Um, like and I was thinking about that the other day like even the people like cozily baking like cinnamon rolls in their corner, you know, like they have like the rest of their house that I hope looks as messy as my house right selfishly kind of like peddly and like they have to like probably stop just baking sourdough and like eventually go like out into the world and like stand in a DMV line like me.

Jim Lovelady: 24:40

Like everybody else has to

Katie Guerrero: 24:41

Do normal human things.

Katie Guerrero: 24:42

So, yeah, it is like it can be clearly an illusion sometimes when you just like stop and think about it, Like it’s nice to claim this as my thing, but like it’s obviously not my whole life and like my purpose, like it can’t be, you know.

Jim Lovelady: 24:55

It is interesting to think about the nature of that illusion and how we’re drawn to this thing. Here’s a window into the good life.

Katie Guerrero: 25:04

Yeah.

Jim Lovelady: 25:05

And I’m constantly going back to this thing, and that’s why. That’s why it’s so addictive. I mean, part of why it’s so addictive is that it’s giving me what I desire. It’s like the uh in Harry Potter the uh the mirror Erised yeah yeah, you sit in front of the mirror of Erised and it shows you your deepest desires. That’s what. That’s what’s going on here.

Katie Guerrero: 25:25

Yeah.

Jim Lovelady: 25:25

You know, and so we’re being shaped by that, and the students that you’re working with are being shaped by this thing. Where they go through this window, I can have everything that I ever wanted, and yeah. What a Dumbledore say oh gosh, gosh, something about like you could just waste your life,

Katie Guerrero: 25:40

Don’t come at me Potter fans.

Jim Lovelady: 25:42

Potter core,

Katie Guerrero: 25:43

Yeah, Potter core!

Jim Lovelady: 25:44

I looked up, okay. So I thought my aesthetic was like Hobbit core. So I looked it up yeah, oh, it’s a thing.

Jim Lovelady: 25:50

Yeah, hobbit core, it’s a total thing.

Katie Guerrero: 25:51

It’s probably in line with, like, hufflepuff core and all those.

Jim Lovelady: 25:56

it was a lot like cottage core, except with hairy feet.

Katie Guerrero: 25:58

Plus old man.

Jim Lovelady: 26:00

That’s what it was. I was like this looks just like cottage core. Yeah, yeah, Because you told me about cottage core and I was like all right, what’s?

Katie Guerrero: 26:06

cottagecore. It’s similar yeah.

Jim Lovelady: 26:07

There’s an aesthetic for everything.

Katie Guerrero: 26:08

There is, there is.

Jim Lovelady: 26:09

Because the nature of our desire is just, I will find, and we live in a world where we can find a window into our specific desires.

Katie Guerrero: 26:22

Yeah, yeah. And I think, like that the Harry Potter reference is helpful because, like Harry starts to think, like maybe somehow my parents are alive, like maybe I can make this dream, this illusion, real, somehow, like it can so captivate our hearts. And I don’t think it’s just about like phones being addictive or whatever, it’s like you said, it’s like the desire of our heart We’ve used the word like curating. To curate is, you know, maybe put in like another term to know exactly what you want and to have the means to actually like make that happen. And that’s like a very appealing purpose for your life, because you’re in control and you know that could make sense. Why, like people in a season of transition who are standing on a precipice of where we might not have control, we don’t really know what’s next. Well, hey, if we can pick our thing, if we can curate our lives to look like this and like have the means to make it happen, then, yeah, it’s not so scary. We don’t have to just trust that it’ll all like fall into place somehow, you know.

Jim Lovelady: 27:23

I want to pause this conversation and invite you to join us in prayer for the Serge field workers that we at the headquarters here in Philadelphia are praying for. Each week we meet on Tuesday and Friday mornings to pray, and this week we’re praying for our summer interns, our folks on home assignment and all of those raising support to go on or back to the field. Would you pray with me? Lord, we pray that you would bless these folks, Give them joy in their work in your Kingdom and the pleasure of your joy as they follow you. Give them wisdom and let your grace abound in their relationships with one another, with family members and children and the people that they serve. Heal all sicknesses, liberate the enslaved, protect them from the powers and principalities of darkness, restore to them the joy of your salvation and let your Kingdom come and your will be done in these places just as it is in heaven. We pray in your name, Amen. Now back to the conversation.

Jim Lovelady: 28:25

Yeah, so some of the key ingredients to this in terms of like, how How I’m able to curate my algorithm is similar to how I’m able to curate my life in many ways, or at least the desire to curate my life.

Katie Guerrero: 28:38

ow, of course, because you want your life to have beautiful things in it, and yeah, Right. To not just be chaos.

Jim Lovelady: 28:45

And then here comes Katie to say hey, I want to invite you into something different. What are you inviting people into?

Katie Guerrero: 28:56

Yeah, I think that’s a good question. I mean, it kind of makes me think every time I have this opportunity to talk to you know, a new student or somebody that’s interested in the internship, it kind of reminds me of when I was first invited into the internship, because it wasn’t something I found and signed myself up for. Yeah, my friend in college, had done the Serge internship ,i London. I had literally never heard of Serge before. Um, and yeah, I think like what they said still rings true, for like what I can share to other people today, which is just like when you go cross culturally, when you step into cross cultural missions, it’s going to show you like a new beautiful piece or new corner of the gospel that you would not have understood on your own.

Katie Guerrero: 29:48

You know, and that’s what my friend said, he’s like if I had stayed in North Carolina and gotten a job you know wherever for the summer, I would have really missed out on like a whole corner of the gospel that now I understand because I got to go to London and that was something that like captivated my attention, I think, as someone who was seeking for that purpose and, yeah, a better understanding of my relationship with the Lord. That was real and that wasn’t like on my shoulders to curate or develop, like the fact that I could just go be invited and that the Lord would maybe use that to teach me more about himself through somebody else’s worldview and cultural lens and through, you know, his global church. I was like, oh okay, so yeah, I think that’s like one piece that I get to invite people into. Yeah, it’s like what you’ll see of the gospel when you do kind of step away from the control of curating your own life.

Jim Lovelady: 30:38

Yeah, and I mean it is convicting to think about how I am curating my life and the and my Instagram or TikTok or or Twitter algorithm is reflecting back on me the things that I desire. It’s telling me what I, it’s telling me what I really want and and so I look at that and I go is this real? And there is there is a place for hey, I want to go read. I love Lord of the Rings.

Katie Guerrero: 31:04

Yeah.

Jim Lovelady: 31:05

And Lord of the Rings is not real.

Katie Guerrero: 31:06

Yeah.

Jim Lovelady: 31:07

You know right, Aw shucks. But it’s true. There’s so much beauty and truth in that story that I’m drawn to. I’m drawn back to that, and it could totally be an escapist kind of thing.

Katie Guerrero: 31:19

Yeah, probably depends on your personality.

Jim Lovelady: 31:21

Exactly and like my tendencies, but again it’s like it shows me what I really want. So like, what do you really want? And you’re coming along and you’re going. I don’t think that that’s what you really want.

Katie Guerrero: 31:34

Yeah.

Jim Lovelady: 31:35

Is there something deeper that you really want?

Katie Guerrero: 31:37

Yeah, yeah, well, I mean, I think like that’s a very vulnerable thing to say, because we can sign up for like the next phase of our life, or for missions, or for a job, for like a whole slew of reasons, sometimes without really asking ourselves a question like what, what, yeah, what do I really want? Which is fair, but sometimes I think it’s not necessarily until you’re in the middle of like the mess or the realization that this isn’t what you wanted, that you like yeah?

Katie Guerrero: 32:03

Learn more about, like your real intentions. I mean, I felt like that was my experience doing the internship. Yeah, back in the day, because I, after my friend told me about like hey, you can come experience more of the gospel, like this will be good for you. You know, I said on the outside like, oh, that’s, that’s what I want. I want to be a better Christian, grow deeper in my relationship with the Lord. Of course.

Jim Lovelady: 32:22

yeah, that’s what you thought you wanted.

Katie Guerrero: 32:23

Yeah, and it’s what I verbalized to people while I was support raising and getting ready. But if you had kind of played the movie that I was watching, in my mind it was like well, here’s my checklist of reasons why I really want this. I’m an English major and studying how to to be an ESL teacher and the folks in London were doing ESL outreach, so check, I’ll like be awesome and we’ll be using my skills like in a way that’s perfect

Jim Lovelady: 32:49

So first it was I’m going to London.

Katie Guerrero: 32:52

Yes, yes, I wanted to also go to London.

Katie Guerrero: 32:53

Like my friend, I’m also Harry Potter nerd, like English major, I was like Shakespeare, Harry Potter, like I wasn’t telling anybody that like

Jim Lovelady: 33:00

match made in heaven

Katie Guerrero: 33:01

But yeah, I was like, oh, I’ll like understand the culture which every like british person is probably like laughing every american ever.

Jim Lovelady: 33:08

That’s right.

Katie Guerrero: 33:08

That’s like I know like Harry Potter, so I know your culture.

Katie Guerrero: 33:12

But yeah, like that, I mean, is the aesthetic fit, and like I was curating it to where I was like of course this is what the Lord wants, of course this is like a good fit for my personality, like I’ll thrive, it’ll be good, and yeah, I mean. And so what I wanted was to just really like be comfortable and self-sufficient and show people how my skills could be useful to them. That was really my interior desire, and I didn’t really realize that until halfway through, like the support raising process. The intern coordinator then asked me hey, Katie, would you think about going to Uganda? Because actually we have lots of people for London this year and some folks had to drop out of the Uganda internship so they really could use you there.

Katie Guerrero: 33:58

And in my pride too, in the self-sufficiency, I like prayed about it. I don’t really even know if I did, looking back, but I thought about it. I was like you know what it would be like a good look to go wherever I’m most needed. You know that’s that’ll be good. But it was like scary cause I’m just like tall white woman from the South. Doesn’t know anything about East Africa, the culture or the context. So God used my pride, even in saying yes to that transition, to put me in a place that was like really outside of anything I would have curated, or like chosen for myself, and like was able to learn so much more. I mean, I could talk about this for forever, but yeah, it was a really beautiful thing and a really hard thing to realize all my reasons for saying yes you know we’re not all of them, but a lot of them were kind of

Jim Lovelady: 34:50

It’s not that they were completely, 100% selfish, but there was enough of that in the mix for the Lord to use that for you to move out, but then the Lord to show you in his mercy hey, do you see that? And you’re like, oh, I didn’t see that until I actually went and discovered it.

Katie Guerrero: 35:06

Yeah, you’re so right. Yeah, I think it is a beautiful thing to be able to just be flexible and say yes, even when you don’t know what it looks like. And that’s yeah, not necessarily. That wasn’t driven out of selfishness. For me, there were mixed motives there and the Lord ultimately used, yeah, a blend of all of those feelings and emotions and my openness to bring me to the better place where he could write, yeah, kind of a better story in my life and one that I couldn’t have curated on my own.

Katie Guerrero: 35:32

And I mean Uganda was exactly the right place for me because I was coming out of a season of like so much the performance mentality that’s just inherent in like college, of like go, go, go. What can you do and achieve On top of that just being my personality, and some like family background things, I had a really like no vulnerability or like emotional, yeah, honesty in my relationship with the Lord, really. So, bringing me to a place like Uganda where local pastors and friends were like let’s pray for five hours, it’s not like at all task-based. That’s what we’re doing for today. I’m sitting there, you know, like praying like I haven’t done anything. I should be like leading a ministry or something.

Katie Guerrero: 36:15

Or my other day is like doing childcare and just like serving yeah, some of the littlest team members on on that mission team, by just being present with them finger painting.

Katie Guerrero: 36:26

My like performance mentality and pride was like so angered and jealous of the fact that, you know, it wasn’t as important of a missions internship as I thought. And yet, like I would never have categorized myself as like really a jealous or prideful person, I think, before that, or even having those instincts in the mix or having a struggle with performance mentality. And so the Lord used, like a totally different cultural context, to say like I’m good, like there is a rest in being a believer, and like Jesus takes the heavy burdens and you know his yoke is light, like that was not something I ever understood of the gospel. Before going to Uganda I didn’t know that you could crash and burn and hit a hard and dark place and that God would rest alongside you and restore you. I really did think in the back of my mind okay, God loves us no matter what, but he’ll love me a bit more if I work a little bit harder, if I just keep going.

Jim Lovelady: 37:29

Yeah, that underlying expectation or assumption. I know God loves me. Yeah, but I know he’ll love me more if I do this amazing thing,

Katie Guerrero: 37:33

If I’m a good kid, He’ll like not be so annoyed with me, you know.

Jim Lovelady: 37:37

What a merciful thing for the Lord to free you from.

Katie Guerrero: 37:40

Yes, yeah, and it’s ongoing. I mean He keeps bringing me back, but that was such a linchpin moment to like receive that as a 19 year old, instead of pushing through yeah, career aspirations, whatever, and finding that much later in life, when it would have been harder, I think, to give up their performance mentality.

Jim Lovelady: 38:00

Oh my gosh, Like all the things that the Lord will do when we put ourselves in these situations, and it’s amazing how doing a cross-cultural experience like this is not only good for the people that we go to serve, but it’s good for ourselves. It’s fantastic.

Katie Guerrero: 38:21

It is. Yeah, it’s wonderful. We need the global church. Yeah, we are a family, a body. So, yeah, it was good for me to receive that from my like Ugandan friends and brothers and sisters, and cool for them to be able to like practice preaching the gospel to me. So I really needed that. So, yeah it, yeah, it was a wonderful thing.

Jim Lovelady: 38:38

Yeah, I asked a friend who works with university students. I said what would people say if they could do anything? You know he and, and he said this is actually a common survey that he’ll do on campus. Like if you had all the money and you could do anything, what would they? What would they say? And he said, hands down, like no contest, they would want to be a traveling influencer. Oh, just over and over again. Yeah, do you does that?

Katie Guerrero: 39:08

Yeah, I mean. Well, I laugh because I don’t know why. It reminded me of like a tiktok. I saw where somebody was like me traveling and it was them literally holding up like a toilet seat. That looked like a like an airplane window next to like a video of them like touching down in Paris.

Katie Guerrero: 39:22

And that’s my life. It’s yeah, no, but I think that does resonate because, like, yeah, people realize what we’re talking about with like curating, we’re searching for beauty. You know, God made a beautiful world. We want to get out there, we want to see it. But yeah, I think what’s interesting is that we believe it’s like inherently that should be in our ability to like control, to say my thing is to be a travel influencer I’m going to see as much of the world as I can and we really don’t trust that like God is also capable of writing like beautiful, cool, imaginative stories, even though He’s literally the creator. I think that just can kind of we can forget that sometimes.

Katie Guerrero: 40:01

I was talking to a student about that and she has, like always, since she was a young girl, wanted to work for a travel magazine because it’s like beautiful and cool, like that. Who wouldn’t want that life? And she’s just an adventurous person. God’s gifted her with that flexibility and that eye for beauty to take like awesome photos, which I don’t have. And yet, like she was really struggling when, as she grew deeper and deeper in her faith like with the calling to ministry as well, and signed up for the Serge summer internship, realized that, like in the back of her mind, she had a lot of anxiety and doubt that it was the right thing, because maybe she should be doing like a an internship in the US that’s good on her resume, that can get her closer to that goal. Right, to working for that travel magazine one day and we kind of just talked and wrestled through that and it kind of helped us both see that often we don’t believe that in responding to God’s call to be a part of his global church, his Kingdom work, we don’t necessarily think it’s going to be like beautiful or creative. So we have like grip, that ability to control our lives really tightly sometimes. And yeah, I got to share with her like my story again, like I thought London would be the most aesthetic thing for Katie to do. It makes the most sense.

Katie Guerrero: 41:18

It matches my Pinterest boards, you know. And yet when I went to Uganda, I was like it was not only like emotionally, spiritually beautiful thing for me to be there to grow, but like it’s literally like the most beautiful place on the planet, like sorry London no shade, but like Google or like, put up a photo in the YouTube video of like the Rwenzori mountains. It’s like, literally, if you’re hiking up at like jungles all the way up to like glaciers and this is on the equator like that’s how tall these mountains are And glaciers and this is on the equator, like that’s how tall these mountains are and like the Nile River runs up from it. It’s like the Garden of Eden in my mind. Wow, it’s just like a picture. Yes, sorry, London, yeah, um, yeah, it’s just like God is so creative and beautiful and it was literally just getting to be there and to experience like this is some of the extent of, like, what God can create and do, and matched with like the spiritual, you know, growth and change in my life was like, yeah, way more than I could have imagined or curated for myself. And so I got to, yeah, share that with this student. And yeah, I mean she had her own wonderful experience with her internship in Prague.

Katie Guerrero: 42:26

beautiful, so yeah.

Jim Lovelady: 42:26

Your algorithm, finally tuned, curated algorithm says this is the most beautiful.

Katie Guerrero: 42:30

Yeah.

Jim Lovelady: 42:30

Look through this window and you will see the most beautiful thing, and Jesus goes, I, I want to give you something that’s not an illusion something that’s real, something that you have to participate in bodily and and it requires you going over here and then it’s.

Jim Lovelady: 42:52

It’s a really encouraging story to hear that you’re like, yeah, and He showed me the garden of Eden, I got to live there, you know, I got to touch, walk this ground and be with these people in three dimensions and and he just has a better, he just had a better plan,

Katie Guerrero: 43:13

He does. He does. Yeah, a better plan, a much beautiful, bigger imagination.

Jim Lovelady: 43:19

A better algorithm. A better algorithm, it’s a wonderful metaphor. It’s a wonderful metaphor because because I wake up every morning with with my expectations of how the day is going to go, and the Lord goes you, you’re not a very you’re not very good at curating something that leads to love. You’re not very good at curating something that leads to real beauty and and you’ve tasted it- and now you sit with, with, with students and you go, hey, hey, what, what’s beautiful to you?

Jim Lovelady: 43:49

Yeah, what does love look like for you, okay, well, what about this?

Katie Guerrero: 43:54

Yeah.

Jim Lovelady: 43:54

Let me let me in in what I think is funny. We haven’t talked about this yet, but I want to hear your take on the remnant. Talk to me about who who’s the remnant?

Katie Guerrero: 44:04

Oh man, Well, I’m certainly not also like, yeah, Old Testament Bible scholar, so that algorithm don’t come at me.

Katie Guerrero: 44:14

But yeah, like I think doing cross-cultural missions and like evangelism is always challenging. There are some people that are maybe more spiritually gifted with evangelism and outreach than others. its hard to leave your home, to leave the cultural context that you know, the things you can control and like make the most beautiful and comfortable, to leave all that go somewhere where nobody knows you doesn’t necessarily think the best intentions of you and to you know, try there to build these meaningful connections and share love and be humble and embody the gospel. Like that is hard for everybody. So I think that, yeah, those that are feeling that desire, just like the prickle in the back of their mind of like I think the Holy Spirit might be kind of changing, yeah, my attention to look at that, to consider it, even just for a one or two week short term trip or an eight week summer internship like

Jim Lovelady: 45:09

When most of your friends yeah are not interested

Katie Guerrero: 45:13

Yeah, and might say like, oh, that’s cool for cultural reasons, but like, I gotta do this thing that’s going to help my resume, or you know, yeah, my parents wouldn’t approve of that.

Katie Guerrero: 45:23

Or, yeah, and you might even feel pushed back from, from your family, your friends, from people that you’ll have to walk through and discern, like, is this, yeah, a calling on my life from the Lord and talk to your, yeah, your pastor, your church, and they can kind of help you, yeah, direct that and guide that, hopefully, and pray for you. But yeah, it’s not necessarily an easy thing and it’s probably our Serge Internships won’t come across your algorithms, but hopefully the Lord is bringing them there in a way. That’s His Holy Spirit to do that. Yeah.

Jim Lovelady: 45:54

So and and that’s, and that’s a lot of fun.

Katie Guerrero: 45:56

Yeah.

Jim Lovelady: 45:56

Yeah, I love that you guys talk about students who have the prickle um are kind of like this remnant of people in a in a context, in a culture that’s just content to

Katie Guerrero: 46:10

To do their thing.

Jim Lovelady: 46:11

To do their thing. And and there are these folks that you’re talking with and who are coming to you know, whatever conference table or whatever, wherever y’all are, are hanging out and they’re like hey, talk to me about this, what is this, Serge, sergei, what is this, what is this thing?

Jim Lovelady: 46:28

And there’s an openness there because the Spirit it just the Spirit wiggles into their mind something a desire for something more beautiful, desire for for something that’s like real, and the deep desire to be in contact and in community with people who are doing something significant, deeply significant.

Katie Guerrero: 46:55

Yeah, and that’s I mean, I think that’s the story too, Like the remnant churches in Ireland and Thailand and, you know, Uganda. Like they’re calling to us, Like this is an invitation.

Katie Guerrero: 47:05

They’re saying you’re invited to come be a part of what God’s doing here, just like hopefully we wouldn’t, you know, invite them here as well. And to say like come, participate with us, come see a beautiful corner of the gospel that you might not see if you just kind of stay with people that look like you, come help us, yeah, to share the good news. Come, let us preach that good news to your hearts as well. And, like you don’t have, if you’re feeling that prickle and you’re like, but I don’t think I actually want to be a missionary forever, like those two things aren’t necessarily hand in hand.

Jim Lovelady: 47:33

Yeah, that’s a good point.

Katie Guerrero: 47:34

This might just be the next, yes, kind of of like on my, you know, journey with the Lord and relationship with Him and being a part of His Kingdom work. It will be good for me to have this perspective, to see a more beautiful and diverse version of the gospel, even if I’m called back to my home community, where I was born and raised, or to my campus, you know. So, yeah, that’s why I think there’s a lot of beauty in that, even the short term or the internships, just to kind of broaden your gospel imagination, you know, to then be open to whatever the Lord is calling you to next.

Jim Lovelady: 48:09

The world, the church all over the world, is desperate for people who you, you can’t even imagine what they need. You know, if you’re pick a major, it’s needed somewhere. Yes, yeah, you know, pick a skill. It’s needed somewhere.

Katie Guerrero: 48:23

Business, marketing, whatever engineering, medical yeah, all beautiful, all needed. Yeah, I think that’s a good, a good point, Jim. Like it can be easy to kind of disqualify ourselves and just be like, oh, I guess missionary probably means like, like I said, I’m not a professional, you know, Bible professor, like that means I have to have those skills and but no, yeah, the Kingdom of God is diverse and all of our yeah, skills, personalities, yeah, are needed to mutually like, encourage each other and lift other people up. So, yeah, yeah that’s a really good point.

Jim Lovelady: 48:56

Yeah Well, I appreciate you sharing and opening my mind to not only the cottage core. You know my algorithm is ruined now.

Katie Guerrero: 49:09

I opened up TikTok this morning. You said it so many times our phones are like right now working.

Jim Lovelady: 49:13

Yeah, that’s right. The first thing on my TikTok feed was a cottage core thing and I was like Katie, I want to go back to the carpenter or whatever.

Katie Guerrero: 49:22

I hope I don’t get conspiracy theories. I shouldn’t have said it again, that’s right.

Jim Lovelady: 49:26

But okay. So last question what is your, what’s your hope and your prayer for the Serge internship over the next couple of years? Like, what would you love to see happen at Serge through the internship? 

Katie Guerrero: 49:43

Yeah, I think its so to just like fear that, like again with the curating, things are in our control. So you know, as me and you sit here and we’re, we feel this weight on our shoulder to to preach the gospel, to bring more people into the organization, it can be scary for us at Serge to just wonder who’s going to carry that baton next. And so, yeah, one of my hopes is just that, like next generation would come and would show all of us old, scared, funny fuddy missionaries that like hey, we care here, we care too, like we’re here the Lord is like working powerfully in our lives, on our campuses. We love the gospel, we love to pray, we’re seeing revival, like the church is not dead, you know.

Jim Lovelady: 50:24

Yeah, revival in Gen Z.

Katie Guerrero: 50:28

In Gen Z, yeah, already in Gen Alpha. I mean, they’re already, you know, middle schoolers, I think. Basically, so, yeah, y’all are there, y’all are doing their work, you’re preaching the gospel on your college campuses, beyond, and your jobs, and so, yeah, I think one hope and prayer is just that we would be encouraged, you know, by that next gen that is taking the call of the gospel seriously already. It’s not like a maybe one day. Y’all are doing it and we’re thankful and we need to see you step up and do that. And you know your Gen Z friends all over the world also need and desire that mutual encouragement as you go towards them and carry that baton with them in a place where they’re some of the only Christians that they might know, in Spain and Ireland or wherever it may be.

Katie Guerrero: 51:09

To know it’s not weird. Yeah, there’s life and beauty and goodness in the gospel. So yeah, I think that’s like one of the hopes, yeah.

Jim Lovelady: 51:19

Yeah, thank you so much for being there to give these students who are chomping at the bit to participate in the Kingdom, giving them an opportunity and pointing them in a direction, say, hey, go explore that and see what happens. I’ll see you in a couple months. Well, it’s more like I’m with you. I’m going with you and give me a call.

Katie Guerrero: 51:43

There’s a lot of that too. I’ll make all the photos live vicariously for you.

Jim Lovelady: 51:47

That’s awesome.

Katie Guerrero: 51:49

Yeah, thanks, Jim, yeah.

Jim Lovelady: 51:50

Thank you. Sometimes I’d really like to just do a hard reset on my social media algorithm. I need to wipe this slate clean and just start over. This is kind of a good illustration for what daily repentance looks like, when you take stock of the way you’ve been curating your life to the best of your ability and you realize that you’ve been settling for less than what the Lord designed for you. You’re like the rich young ruler who’s been curating his life and his sense of dissatisfaction is the same as your sense of dissatisfaction. What else do I lack to have the life that I know I was made for? When you finally bring that question to Jesus, what else do I lack? That’s where you discover the grace of God. Remember Mark 10: 21.

Jim Lovelady: 52:43

Jesus looked at the rich young ruler and loved him. Jesus sees you, He sees the way you’ve been trying to control things and He knows how you’ve been motivated out of fear and selfishness and loneliness and pride, and that the life you’ve curated on your own strength, still it just doesn’t cut it. Jesus looks at you and He loves you. He looks at you and He loves you and he says give up those things and come follow me. This is your moment by moment repentance, and that is how His grace fuels mission. Of course it’s harder than we realize to give up these things that we love, and that’s what it means to take up your cross and follow Jesus in mission. It’s a call to die. Die to the things that we thought were giving us life. But repentance really is a moment by moment, day by day, relinquishing of our desire to curate our own lives and let the Lord do it. Can you trust Him that He’s good and that He loves you more than you can imagine? Can you trust him enough to follow him into some really difficult and scary situations? If you’re ready to do that, we want to help you. We love to come alongside folks who experienced God’s grace and want to know how they can join in God’s mission to restore the world. We love to come alongside folks who are on mission but have lost a sense of God’s grace and are in need of gospel renewal.

Jim Lovelady: 54:12

So here’s some resources that I want to offer you to help you rediscover the gospel renewal and Kingdom mission rhythm of the normal Christian life. The first is a couple of blog posts. One is called Finding Home in Unexpected Places. It continues many of the themes that Katie mentioned in our conversation, and the other is a deeper dive into the summer internships and, while you’re at it, go to Serge.org/internship and see all the places you could go next summer. The second is an opportunity to give toward our gospel renewal and recruiting endeavors, as well as our creative access to closed countries. This is our end of the fiscal year giving campaign, where your gift will be doubled if you send it in before May 31st. Will you help a next generation missionary, pastor, leader or a church be empowered by grace? Follow the link in the show notes to give.

Jim Lovelady: 55:09

And finally, if you’re discouraged in your walk with Christ, if you’re exhausted from ministry, if you need someone to come alongside you to help you see with fresh eyes how much God loves you, I want to invite you to participate in Mentored Sonship. It’s a one-on-one discipleship course that is all is all about restoring you to the joy of your salvation. Remember, the experience of God’s grace always leads you on mission. Look at the rich young ruler. He was offered an experience of grace, but he didn’t take it. He didn’t follow Jesus on mission and it says instead that he went away sad. I know what it means to experience the sadness that comes from saying no to Jesus. So I’m begging you, pay attention to the way that He looks at you and loves you and then let His love for you embolden you to put down your curated life and follow Him into something really amazing and maybe scary, but still some fantastic places.

Jim Lovelady: 56:10

And if you’re like Jim, I’m already on mission and I’m exhausted, well, take Mentored Sonship, but the reality is the same for you. Let Jesus look at you and show you His love for you, His incredible love for you. He knows you’re tired. He knows you’ve done all the right things and that the things that you’ve done just aren’t what you thought they would have been, and He loves you and when you experience His grace He’ll send you out again. And remember He goes with you. So, as you go, receive His blessing. May the Lord bless you and keep you and make His face to smile down on you. May the Lord be gracious to you and turn His bright eyes to you and give you His peace, in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, one God, life everlasting Amen. Thank you.

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